Dividing the mental load?

[Dividingthementalload]

I have name changed as with other details from previous posts this is highly identifying!

My husband is a kind person, genuinely not a nasty bone in his body. But he is naturally quite selfish and thoughtless, which I’ve always put down to boarding school syndrome and having a mum who was unable to physically love because of childhood abuse. He was cared for but was never cuddled - his mum couldn’t do it. He’s come out of childhood pretty well despite this.

However, he is a totally useless partner when it comes to kids and house etc. He was ’that’ dad who didn’t know how to strap the car seat in and never learned. He has a massive job, loads of travel and rarely there in the week. Very hardworking, very long days, rarely whinges. A very high earner too which makes our life very financially comfortable and for which I am very grateful.. I was in the same field but after going back after baby 1 we realised two couldn’t do this and also actively parent. I went part time and eventually changed my job and went self employed to facilitate doing all the wrap around care. I actively wanted (and want) to do that, but I do find it hard work sometimes as I am completely on my own in the week. Although my work is very part time, I have the kids the rest of the time so apart from two sessions during school hours where I do a gym class, I am either working, looking after the kids or doing the odd household thing during school hours like food shopping on way back from a meeting. I literally never sit down.

As a result, it has become the norm that he carries no mental load at all. He does no shopping or cooking for us or the kids so has no idea what they eat or when. If he does offer at weekends, he’ll say ‘what shall I do for the kids’ which drives me insane- beans on toast or a sandwich is always fine yet he feels the need to ask rather than just do it. if he does do something family oriented, which is rare, he says things like ‘shall I put the washing away for you’ like it’s all my bloody stuff when it’s simply the family washing. He almost never puts washing on. if he does he never takes it out so it needs rewashing. He has no idea which clothes belong to which child So putting things away is more painful if he’s constantly getting it wrong Or saying ‘whose trousers are these’ every 30 seconds. He puts their clothes in my pile and vice versa which makes me furious - does he not see me? Does he not see his kids and what they are wearing?

Christmas was ok. He is always mad busy in the run up and so I did all the gifts as usual ( he has never bought the kids anything or been involved). I also bought my own two gifts for him to wrap up as the kids would be mortified if I was left out. We got him gifts too. This is the first Christmas Ive genuinely not minded as he was ridiculously busy and working weekends too before the Holiday and for his health I genuinely wanted his spare time to be relaxed/gym rather than shopping for gifts which he is genuinely terrible at.

Yesterday came to a head. I had asked him to work out how to work one of the kids‘ gifts. I had purchased, wrapped and organised absolutely everything, when unwrapped it was me who looked at all the instructions and set everything up, he did none of this. Neither of us is very good at it but I do it for the kids. I said to him before new year, this particular set up is your job (I’d reached the end of my mental load present tether and wanted him to step up frankly). He still hadn’t done it this morning so I did it. It made me so cross because, for me, it represented everything - every meal this holiday that I organised, every wash I’ve put on, every pile of crap he’s walked past and I’ve dealt with Instead, every job I’ve done that he hasn’t seen. He escapes to the garden to do work which I don’t think it essential (he says it is but he always takes the radio and listens to the sport so it’s definitely a manoeuvre too) and ducks out of the important stuff like what to feed the kids. I’m also becoming resentful about the gift thing at Christmas because although he had no time before Christmas, he did go to the gym etc, and now that I’m cross with him I’m thinking that he should have bloody taken an hour of time and bought me a bloody present which he had actually thought about himself. I know this last bit is unreasonable as I told him it was totally fine and he took me at my word. but I’m so cross about everything else that it’s colouring my view of everything to be honest.

He doesn’t do nothing. He does do bath time and supervises teeth in the evenings ( I had to say last year that taking a paper in wasn’t appropriate when he hadn’t seen his kids all day, I had to say that they were quite good fun to talk to and it was important they see him being interested in what they say). He has taken them swimming today and does so every Saturday (he swims lengths while they are in lessons, that’s the incentive I think). So he’s not completely useless but It’s a mental load thing. Aibu though to want to divide up the mental load stuff more when there are two of us around? I’ve told him I want to talk later and this is my plan:

He needs to take half ish of the mental weekend load. that means he organises food for the weekend in its entirety as I do the working week. If he plans it ahead of time I will shop for it (incentive to plan ahead there but I know he won’t) but otherwise it’s his job to shop for the ingredients too. And that includes kids lunches as well which are easy peasy. For the whole weekend. I also want to say he needs to actively look for jobs like putting the washing on/away, bedsheets, tidying etc at the weekends when there are two of us here. Finally, I want to say we get a gardener to do the jobs he does at the weekends/holidays - I genuinely think it’s a cop out manoeuvre and I want to stop ducking out of family life. He says the gardening is a pleasure for him, which is fine but not if it’s at the expense of leaving me inside to sort out every meal/homework/washing/life while He trims trees.

Is this a reasonable Plan? Even if it’s not i feel so much better just writing that out. Sorry it’s long.

I’m hearing the warnings. More reasons than one then to change this dynamic. I am not, nor do I want to be, his mother.

He just doesn’t seem that interested in the whole of family life. I mean taking a kid to swimming lesson is hardly hard.
I think your idea is a good one. But I don’t think it will work.

Mainly I think he probably thinks you enjoy all of it. Which it might come across that you do.

Also if someone doesn’t care enough to buy you a present then just let him crack on with not getting you a present. Why are you getting yourself a present only so your children won’t be upset.

And finally if you are like this. Your children are clearly just going to grow up just like him if they’re boys. They won’t notice anything.
He doesn’t even notice you sort out your own present and neither do your children.

My children are girls. Which is why it is even more important to me that they see their parents being equals and the chores being divided up. At the weekends I make very sure that it isn’t just me doing stuff, but I’m bloody fed up of asking him to do things and want to resolve that particular issue.

He is under no illusion that I do not like skivvying. I just think he is out of sight out of mind. Between the six monthly blow outs he doesn’t even think I could be unhappy because I am not presenting as such daily. To be honest it doesn’t hit home mostly until the holidays when we have equal spare time and I am the one carrying the domestic can.

You can try to get him to agree to your weekend plan seems very reasonable to me. I just know if he will agree to it or will just say yeah yeah yeah and carry on regardless.
He sounds selfish to me how can he not know that these things need doing? He must know therefore doesn’t care.

Do you get yourself a birthday present too

My dh is a bit like this but not quite as bad.

Definitely get a gardener (my dh used to do this as well, go into the garden all afternoon then expect me to thank him when I'd had to look after the kids whilst he did it). But get him to manage the gardener (ie paying him, leaving him instructions, liasing re holiday etc).

I think it is a bit pointless asking him to plan and buy food for kids meals if you're buying stuff anyway. With my dh he now just knows he can make boiled/scrambled eggs or a cheese sandwich for lunch and fish fingers, peas and chips / sausages, beans and ready made mash for dinner, and those options whilst not amazing are perfectly fine,and we always have those in, so that stops the asking.

I'd also get a cleaner that does your laundry. When you have a dh that genuinely busy I think you do have to use some of that money for the things that a partner would normally do.

I do hear you though. It's all the little things like I'd love it if just for once he sees we're low on bread or milk and thinks to pick some up in the way home from work (which would take 5 mins for him but I've got drag all the kids out to do the same).

I think I will try the plan.

I can’t remember a decent bday present to be honest, he is genuinely dreadful at them. His family buy each other shit that is almost embarrassing to receive. It’s learned behaviour. I tried giving him a list of things I might like but he bloody went off piste and got me something that was sort of like something I wanted but not quite. I would honestly rather not get anything as it’s so utterly disappointing and lie death by a thousand wrapping paper cuts.

I have made my peace with this, we are privileged enough to buy whatever we want so I just treat myself around Christmas and birthdays instead. It does ache a bit though.

Have you ever actually say down and written a list of everything you do (with timings, if relevant) and associated stress levels week by week, plus for key events through the year such as birthdays and the equivalent list for him?

Seeing it in black and white will be far more impactful before you move on to a conversation about divvying things up. Then, when you have that conversation you need to tell him “this cannot continue. You must take on your share. Tell me what you think is fair.” And go from there. If you dictate to him what he is to do instead of involving him in the discussion he will resent it, never invest in it, never truly be involved and therefore never stick to it.

On the perimenopause front, buy him a book and insist he reads it and actually absorbs it. Then ask him to talk to you about it when he has.

You say he’s not a bad guy, but by what you’ve written he’s not coming across particularly well.

But he will not actually chance unless you do it in a way that makes him a participant in the change instead of just telling him off and giving him a list of jobs as if he’s just another child in the house, because that perpetuates the state of infantilism that you’re struggling with.

Baby name - I hear you. Yes I might try the laundry thing and I am definitely going to employ a gardener too. I don’t think I’m going to give him the option. We have had a local co come in before so I will book them in every 2 weeks or so for a couple of hours and get DH to text them with instructions. And sort out payment too!!!! That’s a really good idea.

I get the feeling this is a lot about you being appreciated as your own person.

I know what to get the people I love as presents, because I listen to them chit chat. I see what they’re interested in, I know their tastes.

The only reason I’m picking on the presents (the peri menopause thing is similar) is it’s that type of communication which makes us feel loved and appreciated.

Otherwise we can just end up feeling like a cross between PA and housekeeper.

Biscuit that’s a really good point. I will suggest rather than insist. Back to the mother thing again...

What sort of book though? Some are utter drivel. Would have to be a sciencey one which goes through things factually rather than a fluffy one. Any ideas?

@BiscuitBarrels
Buying someone a book and then telling them to talk about it after IS infantilising.

He’s not doing these things because he doesn’t want to, or isn’t slightly aware of them.

Around, yes this is exactly how I feel. However, I don’t think he has both the capacity to think thoughtfully as well as work 90 hour weeks. We have spoken about dialling down the hours for his own sanity as well as anything else. I suppose I forgive him the utter selfishness in the present department because it enables me to parent the kids in the way I would like. And that counts for a massive amount in my book, much more than material stuff which despite our relative wealth neither of us is very interested in.

I don’t know, but I think the problem is really not a lot to do with the mental load.
You want him to care more about everything and he doesn’t.
Forcing him to read a book and getting a gardener will not make him care more.

That’s just mothering in a different way.

I’d firstly outsource as many tasks as you possibly can. Then sit down with all the other tasks and agree between you who will carry them out

Why would you employ someone to do the gardening which is actually the only thing he does willingly? That seems really perverse. If his salary supports more cleaning hours to include laundry, why not do that? Get your cleaner in for an hour every day, not just once a week.

Play to his strengths otherwise he’ll just make a mess of everything he touches and you’ll get even more pissed off.

Do you actually love him? Does he bring anything nice to your life? Do you think he loves you?

You are treating this as a situation to manage to make bearable. Is that what you actually want from your life?

So much of this resonated with me, because it was where I was 4 years ago. I’m now divorced. And so so happy, because I don’t have to live with another adult who doesn’t appreciate me - which was leading to me not appreciating myself.

If he’s working a 90 hour week you should be doing the lion’s share though. I thought it was just a normal 40 hour week.
Hop he’s earning loads of money. You say you do ok too with just school hours. So you must alright financially.
I think I’ve changed my mind, I’d quite like organising and being in charge of a reasonably well off house hold. There are worse things.

I might be being naive, but I don’t think he is aware of it in quite the way you think. He is a lovely man, just a bit hapless and definitely a chip missing emotionally. I’m probably not the easiest person to live with either, and he forgives my foibles too - I’m impatient, I can be demanding, I can come out with acerbic comments, I’m very blunt. He forgives those Elements of my personality which I’m sure he’d rather change too.

So, it’s not really about him being an arsehole. I’ve tried the nagging, the rows etc, and go nowhere in the long term. I genuinely think sitting him down and pointing out the imbalance is a good thing, as it’s topical, ad then both of us suggesting how we address it. I will throw In the good ideas on here, and see what suggestions he has. But I do think they have to involve dividing up ownership of specific jobs at the weekend, because it is very clear to me that he Is blind to what it takes to run the household and leaving him to join in simply won’t (and hasn’t) worked. Once he has got used to having to think about what we all eat, what we need to wear, how we need to plan and shop before we cook etc, I think it might be easier to go back to a less rigid division of labour.

You make a lot of excuses for him, OP. Perhaps you need to accept that he just doesn't care about how you are feeling. I was brought up in a less than normal household and I don't act in all the ways I learned. I decided not to be such a dick because I didn't want to be.

Buying presents isn’t about material things. You could spend £6 on a book because you knew that person loves that author.

Talking to someone about a tough time they’re going through isn’t about material things, it’s about finding a small window in your mind for the people you love.

Lots of people on 90 hours a week can manage two very small things like that. Alongside some very basic household chores.

I’ve said the average week is not the issue - ie when he is working his 90 odd hours (that’s a bad week, it’s not always that bad but was in the run up to Christmas). The issue is the holidays when we are both there and yet I do everything.

YABVU.
You made a decision to look after the kids and run the household AND work because that’s what you wanted.
He has a high profile and well paid job that provides significant part of the household income (probably majority)
To enable to do his job, he needs some sort of ‘stress-release’. Going to the gym and gardening sound perfect compared to other ‘alternative’ options ( drugs, alcohol.... you get the pic).

You made decisions, he made decisions... you are not happy? Then you compromise!!! You get a housekeeper, cleaner (not a gardener!)... and spend more quality family time together! Where you can do mental load sharing, which probably a lot less as you are less nagging...

YABVU!

As a DGM who helps out I totally get that DH can't sort out the DCs clothes. I hate dressing DGC - how can I know that the crumpled green t shirt with the little dog is actually a pyjama top. How can I know when faced with 20 pairs of sox which fits whom.
So the washing stays your job. But you could simplify things by storing stuff in the utility room rather than trolling round the house putting everything away.
I would aks him what he is going to do, what he would prefer to do, tell him you want your DDs to marry a helpful husband not a useless one round the house like him. I would suggest loading and emptying the dishwasher. Doing all homework with the DDs.

I would see if reading in bed could be night about or only up to him (though he will probably read at breakneck speed to get it done) as it follows on from bath time.

Shopping for food should be done online. Write up a list of meals, with the DDs, for the week so he knows what to cook the DDs and the food has been bought so is there ready.

Anything he does will probably not be done to your standard so remember that and don't give him important jobs that will impact on you eg changing beds, or washing sheets.

Get a cleaner to do all the floor cleaning, bathrooms.

Isn't it amazing that these men can hold down big, important jobs but figure out how to look after kids or do simple household tasks?
It's misogynistic bullshit.
Where is his incentive to change? He has a live in nanny and housekeeper already and he doesn't even have to pay for it.