To think the school counsellor should be giving us information re dd15

[W1nt3rb3rr13s]

Dd has been self harming and has been seeing the school counsellor. We weren’t informed sessions had started. We know nothing about why she is doing it or what is being discussed at said sessions and thus how we can help her. She doesn’t talk to us at all.She spends every available time in her room on her lap top. Today it was until 2 when I came back and removed it. She then said the counsellor said she should have as much screen time as she wants as it distracts her. I disagree. I think she needs to get out of her room, off screens, to get some exercise and a hobby. As there is no dialogue I can’t discuss this with said counsellor or ask why she would advise her in such a way or even how we could help her. She’s 15 and still a child and it seems ridiculous. We’ve been to GP who has referred us to CAMHS. We got a crappy postcard through the post and that was it.

My DD self harmed, fairly severely for just over two years, between 14 and 16 years old. CAMHS weren't interested (sorry, OP, I know that's a negative things to say) and after we finally got an assessment (after DD was hospitalised overnight for increasing suicidal ideation) they basically said she wasn't ill enough for her to access their support (and before anyone jumps on me I KNOW they have funding issues but as a parent I was completely distraught).

It was properly hideous, she was honest about her cutting and I was therefore able to help her manage her cuts and keep them clean and the whole process hygienic but honestly, buying fresh razors so she at least cut with clean, sharp blades was REALLY difficult. Ironically, the openness about her feelings and her cutting and our ability to 'manage' this was one of the reasons CAMHS gave us for not being able to support us. We had a good risk management plan, apparently...

Long story short, we were fortunate enough top be in a place where, with some help from my parents, we paid for her to see a private adolescent psychiatrist who diagnosed her, medicated her and gave us a recommendation for a therapist. Best money we ever spent. She is now 21, finishing Uni and about to start a Masters. There was a significant period of time where I didn't;t think she'd still be alive o her 18th birthday.

On the confidentiality thing, I had no right to the content of her sessions and the therapist was very clear that she would only be in touch is she believed she was actively suicidal (which she was, for a while) but the content of her sessions I knew, and know very little about. As PPs have said, the point of therapy is that it is confidential.

I spoke to someone at Papyrus, who are a suicide prevention charity but I mainly spoke to them about self harm. Young Minds also offer support and strategies for parents. However I would also recommend contacting the counsellor via school to see if she can speak generally (i.e. not in detail) about how you could best support your daughter.

It's a horrible thing, knowing your child is self harming and not being able to 'fix' it. I felt like I was failing her and that something I had done had 'caused' this coping mechanism. She has told me that neither of these beliefs were true. Even now, however, she can't answer the 'why' question, it's such a big thing to try and articulate a response to.

I wish both you and your daughter the best, OP. I felt angry/sad/hurt/scared and a mass of other emotions. Please try to find some support for you as well, that way you will be able to support your DD as you both work through this time. All the very best.

I don’t think it is. The lap top is stopping her from doing anything, keeping her in her room and making her miserable and unhealthy which will make it even worse. It’s a vicious circle which she needs to break.

Many thanks for the understanding and helpful posts. Scrolling through them now to collate info and advice.

With regard to your 21:20 post... and am not in any way a therapist/counsellor. But the way I understand it (albeit from afar) is that your DD is teetering on the top of a ladder, a step upwards is 'self harm zone'. You, understandably want her to be many many rungs below - to safety -getting fresh air, exercise. But to your daughter she just can't contemplate moving that quickly down the ladder, she 'needs' to be near the self harm zone because at the moment she needs to know she can access it. The 'self soothing' - time on laptop allows her to stabilise for a bit, she still has the self harm rung nearby but she doesn't need to go up a level. Over time the self soothing mechanisms may well change and she can take the steps back down the ladder, but at her own pace.

@W1nt3rb3rr13s I've PM'd you.

being all day on her laptop is not ideal, but you coming in and removing it is going to make her feel like she has even less control over her own life, which is likely one of the reasons for anxiety and depression so youre probably actually making it worse, and it sounds like youre treating her younger than she is.

Do you know what shes doing online? Is she socialising, gaming, decompressing, distracting herself, reading, watching movies?

I think you need to maybe make a deal. That you wont hassle her about screen time, within reason, but she needs to get out every day or most days. Get her to think of something she'd like to do or try.

I think you need to try a different tack

What did she enjoy before all this? It’s probably a redundant suggestion, but if she won’t go out with friends/on her own could you try inviting her out to do something she might enjoy? If that’s out of the question maybe then try bringing her up a cuppa every now and again and sit on the end of her bed and muse to her about yourself and your day- make it clear that you don’t particularly need a response and don’t talk about her MH problems unless she raises it. This will help to break up how much time she’s spending alone on the internet- even if she doesn’t look up from her laptop at the time.

She might tell you to go away. If so respect her wishes but let her know that you wanted her company/ wanted her opinion on xyz. Start making a connection by chatting about the mundane or yourself to take the pressure off her. Even if it never results in her opening up to you, the short burst of company will help a little.

You might actually find that the laptop is actually whats keeping her going, rather than cause of depression.
clearly its not the ideal coping mechanism, but the internet isnt blindly looking at a screen. It can be very interactive and social

Timely thread. Found out just before Xmas that dd was thinking about suicidal and selfharming. Went to a and e And then got an emergency assessment at camhs. Just heard today they don’t think she is serious enough for their support. She has spent the holidays not interested in seeing friends/family meals. Just wants screens. It is so sad. So no advice from me, just empathy.

I think it's worth you considering finding a counsellor for yourself - supporting somebody close who is suffering from poor mental health is hard and you getting some space to talk about what this is like for you, with somebody focused on helping you might be worth trying.

I suspect from the tone of your replies to other people commenting that you're one of the stressors for your daughter, even though you love her and don't mean to be. It can be true that she perceives you as controlling/unhelpful etc whilst you see yourself as supportive and loving. Doesn't mean either of you is definitely right or wrong, but is something to be aware of.

She is close to being of an age where she can leave home, so think carefully before treating her like a much younger child and trying to remove technology from her. She is at home, not drinking excessive quantities of alcohol, taking illegal drugs or having lots of less safe sex.

I think with self harm, I'd try to get her to explore less damaging ways of getting the same sensations to give her other options. More sleep would be good for her, but it may be she's getting too anxious to fall asleep - so maybe have a read about distress tolerance skills that might help her be ready to sleep - having a bath, hot chocolate, writing down what she's worried about. There is a DBT workbook that might be worth getting hold of.

@branleuse - I agree being very heavy handed with the laptop could make things so much worse. I think the OP needs to tread very carefully there. There is no point removing the laptop until other coping skills are in place. And there is no point trying to deal with emotion regulation while distress tolerance is still such an issue.

I feel you very much as my DD is also self harming but has been suicidal. The only time her counsellor has contacted me has been to tell me when she was planning suicide to let me know of the risks and to advise on what to do. Horrible phone call.

I work in mental health (ironic!) And I've tried sending my DD all sorts of great resources and she wont try any of them. Which of course is her choice but is very frustrating.

One thing I will say is she didnt find counselling useful at all and advice from our local mental health service echoed what I think which is that she needs coping strategies more than to chat about her feelings. Is there anywhere near you where you can self refer to a group session? My DD is finding these much more useful.

It is awful I feel for anyone in this situation.

Lots of sympathy from me about the whole process which is underfunded and assumes that parents know everything already.

Firstly, counsellors won't tell you what she said. If there was a chance that they would then nobody would be honest.

It's up to you to contact counsellor and say that you know she can't repeat specifics but what can you do to support dd? Counsellor can give you general advice.

More importantly, you can become a counsellor with very few qualifications. Somebody I know became one after doing a once a week course at night school. It sounds like she might benefit from someone more qualified.

With NHS mental health stuff you have to keep on chasing. I've taken a suicidal adult to A&E and they basically sent us home with a bunch of leaflets. One of them was to self refer for CBT- waiting time 7 months!! Despite a promise to call with an assessment appointment the next day they didn't contact the suicidal person until 3 weeks later. It's like sticking a plaster on a bullet wound stuff. If you can pay then you can get her seen sooner

Tableclothing has good advice.

Also you could change the house password to the WiFi.

And maybe set up the getting out of the house stuff. Just all go on a hike together. Or ice-skating. Something to take her out of herself.

Don’t force her outside. Exercise does not cure depression! In fact, in some cases, it makes it worse because you forcing her to exercise tells her that she needs to lose weight (even if you don’t mean it like that). Some teenagers can’t deal with constantly being around other people, even their parents, but will talk to people on Snapchat etc for hours. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad parent by letting her be alone, but if I were you I’d check her room for things she might be using to self harm (razor blades etc)

@doritosdip anyone can call themself a counsellor but I doubt that an unqualified counsellor would be practising in a school. It's not possible to say that her daughter would benefit from someone "more qualified" without knowing about the qualifications held by this counsellor. Also lots of courses eventually leading to qualification are weekly at college or university but they cover a variety of levels.

Sorry you are going through this. Wow, teens can really take it out of you.

I think the advice to contact the counselor is good. Find out what they can do, in terms of giving you advice. I wouldn’t expect them to break any confidence but they can give advice about dealing with self-harm in general, I’d think.

Also, trust your own judgment. I say this because what you’ve written just makes sense and you sound like a caring, thoughtful person. She needs exercise, a healthy diet, good sleep, water. and of course unlimited screen time can’t be healthy!

@skatastic - I think as counselling brings up uncomfortable feelings, where there are no healthy coping stategies it can make things worse especially if the counsellor isn't careful not to re-traumatise their client.

@MamToTeens

It’s proven that our bodies need exercise to function properly. We don’t have to equate the need for it with weight problems - everyone should be doing it!

I read a study when I was young that correlated lack of exercise, sleep, poor diet and water with rates of depression. Pretty stunning, but makes sense, the human body needs these to run optimally and all also impact our brain function.

Try not putting any oil or gas in your car for a while and see what happens. We are way more complicated than a car engine.

That’s your opinion, in her mind it might be a lifeline, she could be talking with other people in the same position online and at the end of the day, she needs to talk to someone and a once a fortnight counselling session isn’t going to be enough. As awful as it may be for you, she isn’t ready to talk to you about it. Ask her how you can help her, work on strategies together and don’t just give her a ‘one size fits all solution’ of exercise and new hobbies that you’ve found on the internet. Good luck Op.

Yeah exercise is good for mental health but it's hard to do when even basic stuff is hard, like getting out of bed, out of the house, dressed etc. I have never been able to accurately explain to anyone without MH issues how you just can't sometimes. Especially in the early days/before you have a good handle on your "issues" or much insight. Yes it's good to try but don't push that as a magical cure. It's not. And in times of great stress/a depressive episode it can be enough to send someone the other way. It's more guilt. More expectations. More things they're not achieving. You have to tread that line carefully and remember not to push it like it'll cure everything but just gently nudge and encourage any steps out of that situation, no matter how small.

Also I was glued to my laptop too, to my dms despair. It was my lifeline. I posted on forums for teen MH. I used it as a distraction. I wrote my feelings down in a word document. It wasn't healthy but it served a purpose while I was very unwell and constantly felt like cutting myself.

If you can afford it then private family therapy might be helpful to enable you to support her.

Your daughter wont open up to a counsellor if she feels what she says will be reported back. Often people dont wont to burden the people closest to them with their problems, or dont want them to view them differently in the future. Or, in the case of children, there may be things in the family which bother her but she doesnt feel able to open up about yet. Why were you not in touch with the counsellor sooner to ask what you can do to help your daughter? You are blaming the counsellor for a lot, but she is trying to help your daughter and being down on her is not going to help.

She was on her phone all day until 2. Plenty of time to contact friends. That was far too much,she is refusing to hand over her lap top. All day on a lap top is not going to help her mental health.

You make it sound like a punishment. You’re taking her laptop away for what exactly? Because you think it’s hindering her mental health?

From her point of view..... she’s being punished for being depressed. You’re in danger of creating your own vicious cycle. Punished for failure..... self harm..... depressed....... punished.......... self harm ....... depressed.

I would stop focusing on the screen time for now. I’d stop being so heavy handed about how YOU think she should handle her depression. Perhaps focus on some of the links and advice people have offered.
I wonder if maybe she’s also writing on her laptop, expressing herself in a diary or blog or maybe she’s talking to a support group. I would be very wary at the moment of cutting it.

I’ve been there. As a self harmer. With counselling I came to understand my own issues. No one fixed them for me, I had to examine myself and my own thoughts. I could never have done that without the promise of confidentiality. I still suffer anxiety, and with that comes the depression but I’ve learned other ways of ‘release’ as an adult that doesn’t involve hurting myself.