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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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7
JamieVardysHavingAParty · 03/12/2019 09:56

I am concerned that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide.

Not only is this nauseating in the context of the thread, it is also a simplification of statistical data. Women attempt to take their own lives at a higher rate than men, but men tend to pick more violent methods than women, so women attempting to take their own lives are more likely to be saved.

So what about Virginia feeling that the only way out of this is taking her own life? Isn't that equally valid a worry?

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 03/12/2019 09:58

q

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 03/12/2019 10:00

Yes women should shut up about what has happened to them in case a man commits suicide.

This. Jesus fucking Christ. So we're supposed to feel sorry for a man who, even if he didn't technically rape a young girl, was certainly compliant in her continued abuse?

Some of the comments on this thread is why women and girls still don't speak up about abuse. It is disgusting.

YouSawThePlans · 03/12/2019 10:02

The poster who mentioned a defamation case may be right. I didn't realise that was the basis of the case against Ghislaine.

I don't understand why the US Senators, governors, presidents, business executives and world leaders that VG said she was also trafficked to, aren't being placed under the same scrutiny as PA. They have positions and reputations to lose (he'll always be a Prince regardless of whether he steps back from duties or not).

BlackCatSleeping · 03/12/2019 10:03

JE’s houses were rigged with hidden cameras and it is well known that he kept videos of the rich, powerful and famous having sex on his properties to use as leverage against them. Does the FBI have all these videos now? Surely the contents must be explosive.

Deals must have been done behind closed doors. It makes no sense.

Sarcelle · 03/12/2019 10:04

VG's dad was on GMB today. He was working at Trump's spa and got her a temporary job there. Whilst there she met Maxwell who said she should come and work for Epstein, they would train her up as a masseuse. She ran it past her dad. He said she should look into it as an opportunity to learn something but he wanted to meet Epstein. He met Epstein at his Palm Beach house and he said he was a rich but normal guy, seemed pleasant and a good opportunity for his daughter.

Not sure who the abuser was when she was 7. Her dad seemed genuine enough. I believe her. I think GM had a role of getting the girls and once they were in they were manipulated. VG only escaped when they sent her abroad to find girls in a similar vein, only she didn't go back. That was their MO. People hanging around with JE and GM knew where their interests lie.

VG's dad said that JE was killed but now he was worried about his daughter's safety. I think if anything happened to her now it would look too obvious. But who knows. GM comes from damaged stock herself, her own father was monstrous.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:06

The FBI have those videos though @BlackCatSleeping- they’re evidence. They’re not going to show them to us!

@YouSawThePlans I think a fair few of those people are under a lot of scrutiny in the states, it’s just not widely reported here. Most Americans wouldn’t realise how much scrutiny PA is under here either

Although I was Shock that they got Alan Dershowitz on panorama to talk about it when he’s another accused of being supplied women by Epstein

cakeisalwaystheanswer · 03/12/2019 10:06

VR came across as credible, believable and truthful. PA comes across as evasive and untruthful, only saying the minimum so he can't get caught out. The amount of time he spent at JE's homes on it's own is a disgrace but that he has been caught lying by saying he was staying with the consulate instead just proves he knew it was wrong and is trying to cover his tracks.
That this sleazy awful man was allowed to become involved in charities set up to protect women is appalling. Charities need to cut all royal connections now. Bring on the republic.

AngelsSins · 03/12/2019 10:08

I am concerned that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide and PA has had a massive fall from grace. He may have, very wrongly, had sex with someone who was not quite of age if he had sex with VR in the US. She was over 16 here so that, presumably, would not be a crime. I would, however, not like to hear that PA feels suicide is the only way out if this situation

Are you fucking serious? Are you actually suggesting that abused women should shut the fuck up and keep it to themselves so that men don’t kill themselves? What the hell is wrong with you? And by the way, “having sex” with a trafficked woman absolutely is a crime, why wouldn’t it be? Do you think enslaving teenagers so they can be raped by rich old men is ok too? Maybe you’re worried these poor rich men would kill themselves if they didn’t get to rape a coerced teen once a month?

Tinkobell · 03/12/2019 10:09

It would be good if she could explain ‘why now’ ? I realise that she gave the photo to the fbi in 2011, but what’s prompted her speaking out now? I do believe her account. But I’d like t understand what’s changed in her life and circumstances now to make her speak up. I do hope it’s not because Epstein’s death has meant the hush money has finally ran dry and she does have more robust rationale.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:12

Personally, going back to my #metoo point, I think she realised the public would vilify and not believe her her before now. She would’ve been destroyed

Also, Epstein was arrested so the authorities had enough evidence that he was trafficking women- do you think she would’ve been taken this seriously before that happened?

Not that she was quiet about it- she’s been trying to get it out in the open for a long time, but I think the time had to be right for everything that’s happening now. It wouldn’t have happened 5 years ago

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 10:12

I would love to know why anyone thinks it matters that she looks happy in the photo.

Of course PA had sex with her. Of course she was sex trafficked and forced to. I don’t believe that anyone doubts either of those points.

beautifulstranger101 · 03/12/2019 10:13

*Yes women should shut up about what has happened to them in case a man commits suicide.

This. Jesus fucking Christ. So we're supposed to feel sorry for a man who, even if he didn't technically rape a young girl, was certainly compliant in her continued abuse?

Some of the comments on this thread is why women and girls still don't speak up about abuse. It is disgusting.*

I agree 100%. Some of the comments in this thread are sickening me to my stomach. If it was THEIR daughter who was groomed, coerced, abused or raped, I doubt they'd be so worried for PA's welfare. Wont someone think of the poor little lamb Prince Andrew?! Disgusting.
This whole situation reeks of Clinton's denial of sexual contact with Monica Lewinsky by arguing over semantics: "it depends upon what the meaning of the word is is".
I've had enough of rich, privileged men in power abusing women "below them" for their own sexual gain with no conscience or responsibility and using semantic gymnastics to slime their way out of trouble. Its revolting and it has to stop.

Tinkobell · 03/12/2019 10:14

VR account of her ‘Prince’ night was quite graphic. Profuse facial sweating, a quick performance etc
I tell you who will know if there’s echoes of truth in any of it...his ex wife Fergie! I think most women would know “yep sounds like him” or “nah, not his style”

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 10:14

I do hope it’s not because Epstein’s death has meant the hush money has finally ran dry and she does have more robust rationale.

If your 17 year old daughter had been sex trafficked, how much compensation would be enough for you? I hope she did go public for money, and I hope she gets it. She deserves it for what those creeps put her through.

lyralalala · 03/12/2019 10:16

It would be good if she could explain ‘why now’ ? I realise that she gave the photo to the fbi in 2011, but what’s prompted her speaking out now? I do believe her account. But I’d like t understand what’s changed in her life and circumstances now to make her speak up. I do hope it’s not because Epstein’s death has meant the hush money has finally ran dry and she does have more robust rationale

Maybe with MeToo and/or his death people are actually finally listening to her

It's not as easy to keep things quiet now as it used to be, and that will be worrying a lot of rich and powerful people

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:17

Also- there wasn’t ever any hush money was there?

Perisoire · 03/12/2019 10:17

@ZebrasAreHorsesInPyjamas

ZebrasAreHorsesInPyjamas

I haven't been watching it all very closely at all, and have no clue as to who is telling the truth. But to be honest, the only thing that keeps springing to my mind (and maybe this has been covered in the news and I've missed it, in which case I should probably shut up), is where were her parents in all this? Why was she allowed to go to the UK with some bloke? What reason would be good enough to allow your 17 year old daughter to swan off to another country with some middle aged bloke. What am I missing / have I missed?

So a girl is sex trafficked and forced to have sex and then only thing that springs to your mind is where were her parents’?! You are victim blaming.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 03/12/2019 10:21

I do hope it’s not because Epstein’s death has meant the hush money has finally ran dry and she does have more robust rationale.

If I was to guess I would say that Epstein’s death just brought it all back to the open and with his death brought all sorts of rumours and accusations so I guess maybe she felt there was a better chance of her being believed.

BlackCatSleeping · 03/12/2019 10:21

@Passthecherrycoke

I didn’t mean that the videos would be shown, but will the FBI arrest anyone else? Surely the FBI has videos of whether these men did or did not have sex with Virginia. Why hasn’t Ghislaine Maxwell been arrested? What is going on with the investigation?

InsufficientFuns · 03/12/2019 10:22

Does anybody actually believe that epstein is dead?

Why do you think they let the world see his face as he was stretchered out... I've never ever know that before...

I think he was knocked out with drugs and removed. He's living it up somewhere....

diddl · 03/12/2019 10:23

So Virginia went to work for GM/JE with her dad's knowledge-and then what?

They lost touch?

She didn't initially think that anything untoward was happening due to past abuse & said nothing to her dad?

Her dad knew??

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:23

I think it will take a long time to run an investigation like this. There are so many threads so many people, so many international police forces/ governments/ legal systems to deal with. I think the investigation will go on for years.

Not only that but it seems GM is very likely outside of the US and PA certainly is

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:24

So what if he did diddl? Plenty of people are unlucky enough to have crap parents

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 10:24

"If it’s fake, why isn’t Andrew getting experts to examine the original?"
I think the FBI have the original and I assume they aren't going to hand it over to someone who isn't even a witness.