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VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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SerendipityJane · 03/12/2019 09:34

That photograph shows no signs of being tampered with to a casual observer. It might have been - I am not an expert - but it’s the same as hundreds of photos I have seen from that time.

How can anyone here know ? They haven't seen the original. This is a digital copy - goodness knows what the settings were when it was scanned. Unless and until it is called out as tampered or a fake by the people in it, it stands as what it is: proof that PA knew VR. Proof that GM knew PA knew VR (and vice versa) and that at some point in time (from the wider image - which underscores we aren't seeing the original ....) they were all together in GMs flat in London.

As a piece of evidence in a criminal enquiry, it would be enough to ask all people in view what their connection was and removes any possibility of "I have never met ".

twosoups1972 · 03/12/2019 09:35

The background is white, and to me that doesn't look like a shadow. It looks like marker pen!

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 09:35

How would PA get hold of the original? VG said she gave it to the FBI

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 09:37

I was quite disappointed in the Panorama programme. I don't think it gave much that hadn't been said before. I don't know if Virginia Roberts was meant to be very limited in what she said but I thought we'd hear a bit more detail about the 3 actual incidents of alleged sex with PA. Something along the lines of how they actually got into the bedroom or bathroom, what was said and by whom.

She really only talked about the 1st incident, at Ghislaine's home, but even then didn't really say anything. She went from Ghislaine telling her in the car on the way there that she was to do for PA what she does for Jeffrey to wanting her photo taken with PA (and looking very happy in it).

I do believe the photo is genuine but I think she looks genuinely happy in it. Her whole face is lit up and happy, not like a fake smile that doesn't reach the eyes.
I do think a couple of photos of other occasions (not with PA) show her looking less than happy.

The other 2 alleged occasions of sex with PA were mentioned as one liners by the interviewer. No detail about how they came about. Was PA just in a bedroom ready in the bed/massage table waiting for her? Was there conversation? There's a lot she could have said that would have given people close to PA an indication of whether his language and terminology and style of speaking rang true. (Especially Fergie).

She said she was sexually abused from the age of 7. She didn't say by whom. She said she ran away from home and found hunger, pain and abuse on the streets. It makes you think she was sexually abused by family but maybe not.

When she was sought out and offered an interview to be trained as a masseuse by Ghislaine Maxwell she was as already working at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach. She said her dad got her the job and she excitedly told him about her interview. So, for the previous poster, her father was around and helpful to her.

I was shocked that the BBC had the email record from 2015 from PA to Ghislaine Maxwell stating he had some specific questions about Virginia Roberts. Considering he had been accused of having sex with her, if he was going to email his friend, why didn't he say 'who the hell is this girl saying she had sex with me? I don't remember ever having even met her?'
The email, while not actual proof, makes me think it is likely he had sex with her.

I was then shocked by the other email sent to Virginia Roberts by a journalist saying "Don't forget (other man's name)" etc. Why did she need reminding about what to say? Surely if it was all true and horrific she wouldn't need reminding? This had made me doubt her story. The fact that she was paid 160,000 dollars for her story in 2011 by the Mail on Sunday adds to my doubting her. She sounds to me like a willing prostitute.

The information she and her friend gave that didn't tally also made me doubt both of the women. She admits she got it wrong by referring to an incident in New Mexico - the location was wrong. How can she have confused that? New Mexico is 2000 miles away from New York and not remotely similar. She admits she could be wrong on places or dates ffs.

I'm left thinking that she and PA probably did have sex (or a massage and sex). I think she enjoyed the lifestyle (not necessarily her work but money, surroundings etc) and was basically a prostitute who came to regret it. She possibly was vulnerable but, especially in New York, she wasn't locked up. She could have left. She chose not to. It doesn't sound like JE and GM were replacement family. By all accounts the girls were just used for their services.

It is all a mess. JE is dead. I don't think it likely they would ever get a conviction against PA for having sex with a minor. I think the best thing that could happen is for all the women to be provided with long term counselling paid for from JE's estate.

I am concerned that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide and PA has had a massive fall from grace. He may have, very wrongly, had sex with someone who was not quite of age if he had sex with VR in the US. She was over 16 here so that, presumably, would not be a crime. I would, however, not like to hear that PA feels suicide is the only way out if this situation. What JE did to the girls is appalling but if sounds like he trafficked her. I don't think PA forced her to have sex with him.

TatianaLarina · 03/12/2019 09:37

It looks like marker pen!

Yes, if you were going to fake a photo you’d definitely put marker pen on it.

SerendipityJane · 03/12/2019 09:38

Well it crosses countries but the FBI investigate crimes. They still have to be prosecuted somewhere, and those states often have statues of limitations

Federal cases are heard in federal courts - nothing whatsoever to do with any state. And generally federal law trumps (no pun intended) state law although that could be a thread if not an entire website in itself.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 03/12/2019 09:39

I don’t think she came across massively well and worry that’s going to swing in Andrews favour with the public sad

I don't know anyone who believes him, the public know full well he is
involved in this up to his neck. Sadly though I don't think there will be any consequences for him apart from having to retire from the public eye.

birdsdestiny · 03/12/2019 09:40

Yes women should shut up about what has happened to them in case a man commits suicide.

Devereux1 · 03/12/2019 09:40

The screaming out loud part of all of this is Andrew has not denied ever sleeping with Victoria Roberts.

He just says he has no memory of it.

The 100% PR-trained get out of clause of the guilty. It means when he is found out later - and he will be - he can't be accused of lying, just of having a poor memory.

Considermesometimes · 03/12/2019 09:41

I 100% believe her

beautifulstranger101 · 03/12/2019 09:41

He's an utter perv in my opinion. All that stuff about not sweating etc? Bull. If you read transcripts of what he actually said it reeks of lies. Ive studied language analysis and indicators of deception within statements and he's lying without a doubt. I think its absolutely disgraceful that just because he's royal he appears somehow immune. Shame on the royal family.

recrudescence · 03/12/2019 09:42

I’ve just watched this. If VG was lying she fooled me. I doubt there there will ever be total, incontrovertible proof of sexual misconduct but PA is a fucking sleaze and we all know it. If punishment isn’t possible then I hope he lives for the rest of his days in total disgrace.

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 09:42

I am concerned that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide and PA has had a massive fall from grace. He may have, very wrongly, had sex with someone who was not quite of age if he had sex with VR in the US. She was over 16 here so that, presumably, would not be a crime. I would, however, not like to hear that PA feels suicide is the only way out if this situation.

That’s really not my primary concern here.

OP posts:
TatianaLarina · 03/12/2019 09:43

I’ve reported your post Midas for being nauseating on every conceivable level.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 03/12/2019 09:44

@twosoups1972 what you’re seeing is the edge of his shirt in the shade of their two bodies and the upper circle is her arm reaching round his back. There is a sliver of a gap between his shirt and her waist where you can see the white wall behind them. Her arm at the top of the gap and the edge of his shirt at the bottom.

LaurieMarlow · 03/12/2019 09:44

He didn’t say the photo was his fake in the interview. He said this ...

You can't prove whether or not that photograph is faked because it's a photograph of a photograph of a photograph

It's very difficult to be able to prove it but I don't remember that photograph being taken. That's me but whether that's my hand… I have simply no recollection of the photograph ever being taken

He stopped just short of saying it’s fake to avoid being caught in a direct lie should it be proven that it’s genuine.

That would strongly suggest he knows it is.

Jodie77 · 03/12/2019 09:46

If abusers decide to kill themselves because the victim has told the truth, then it is not on the victim. I will not lose any sleep over it, either.

Butchyrestingface · 03/12/2019 09:46

What you’ve circled looks like shadow or the black background behind them to me

Not only that but you can see a similar black “mark” on PA’s shirt, between the collar and button, clearly a shadow.

Jodie77 · 03/12/2019 09:48

@LaurieMarlow

Yes they were all perfect politician answers. He didn't deny anything, and nor did he admit anything. It's really difficult do watch such an obvious liar and his arse covering exercise

Butchyrestingface · 03/12/2019 09:48

I’ve reported your post Midas for being nauseating on every conceivable level.

Slightly admiring that anyone bothered to go the distance in reading it.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 09:48

Midas everything you’ve described is still grooming/ coercive control of VG though?

Devereux1 · 03/12/2019 09:50

He didn’t say the photo was his fake in the interview. He said this ...

You can't prove whether or not that photograph is faked because it's a photograph of a photograph of a photograph

It's very difficult to be able to prove it but I don't remember that photograph being taken. That's me but whether that's my hand… I have simply no recollection of the photograph ever being taken

Exactly. If someone had a photo of you or I and it was fake, we'd say things like "I've never been there", "no way, it's a complete fake", "I've never met her, let alone stood like that"... not "er.. well that's my face... but is that my hand?" Shock

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 09:52

Sorry @SerendipityJane I’m
Getting a bit confused with the posts here- I was responding to the poster who asked why she didn’t go to the police- I suspect she was told all I have listed as reasons they couldn’t help- the FBI age involved now but wouldn’t have investigated on her say so 5,10 years ago when she first raised this

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 09:54

not "er.. well that's my face... but is that my hand?"

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her
OP posts:
diddl · 03/12/2019 09:54

"I don't think PA forced her to have sex with him."

He wouldn't need to though if it was ordered by GM/JE.