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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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7
beautifulstranger101 · 03/12/2019 10:26

I haven't been watching it all very closely at all, and have no clue as to who is telling the truth. But to be honest, the only thing that keeps springing to my mind (and maybe this has been covered in the news and I've missed it, in which case I should probably shut up), is where were her parents in all this? Why was she allowed to go to the UK with some bloke? What reason would be good enough to allow your 17 year old daughter to swan off to another country with some middle aged bloke. What am I missing / have I missed?

Perhaps you are missing the point that not everyone is lucky enough to have parents who care about their wellbeing. Some people have crap parents. How is this the victim's fault? Why is this even a pertinent question in a rape case? If you're going down the route of looking at parental figures- perhaps a more pertinent question would be why didn't PA's mother (who just happens to be the queen of England) teach him NOT TO RAPE.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:27

To be fair, no one is accusing PA of rape

WeeMadArthur · 03/12/2019 10:27

It saddens me that still today people seem to expect victims of abuse to always look terrified, or be dragged screaming and fighting otherwise it can’t really be considered abuse. The fact that most abuse is carried out by people you know and love seems to be ignored. Apparently it’s only proper rape if a monster with a knife jumps out from behind a bush and drags you away. And unless you fight with tooth and nail against it, screaming all the while you aren’t really a victim. And what were you doing there, dressed like that, at that time of night? No wonder so few rapists get convicted.

Cailleachian · 03/12/2019 10:27

@ChickenyChick

"she is on a mission to goad him into suing her for libel/defamation, as only once he takes that bait will there be an actual court case where evidence can be presented"

I never thought of that. Of course she is - clever, clever woman.

There isnt a cats chance in hell of there being a criminal prosecution, and if it were looking like it were a possibility, Andrew could just stay under effective house arrest or only travel with Mummy, so that he can use his immunity from arrest. The British government are not going to extradite a senior royal, so he can still travel internationally.

A private prosecution is incredibly risky for her, and the House of Windsor can outlawyer her at every turn. But if Andrew sues, what does she have to lose if he wins - all the risk is on him....and if he refuses to sue, then she has got her story out there.

She is quite remarkable.

I have a great deal of respect for her.

Tinkobell · 03/12/2019 10:28

@Perisoire......I think it was very sad that there was literally nobody in this kids life with any awareness of what she was getting dragged into who didn't step in and stop her. But what I'd also say is having 2 older teens I know how utterly headstrong and defiant they can be when they're convinced there's no risk, that you the parent are completely over reacting etc....parents and adults can do little to stop a headstrong kid that sees you as just blocking their pathway to something exciting. You can't barricade them in, you can't always talk them round....in fact the harder you push the more they will pull.

PlasticPatty · 03/12/2019 10:28

Prince Andrew will be able to access all the support (for his mental health) that anyone could need. Suicide would look like an admission of guilt and would be further letting the side down. Into the background for a while, maybe some secretive charitable works later, to die a 'good man, much maligned' in a couple of decades - that's the plan, I'd guess.

libdumps · 03/12/2019 10:29

Where were her parents in all this? Confused
The whole thing is disgusting. And OT but why isn't Harvey Weinstein in jail?

beautifulstranger101 · 03/12/2019 10:29

Ms Guiffre claims she was trafficked by the since disgraced financier Epstein and forced to have sex with Prince Andrew when she was a teenager, which the duke categorically denies.

Being forced to have sex with someone = rape

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:31

Harvey Weinsteins trial starts in January

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 03/12/2019 10:31

They lost touch?

She didn't initially think that anything untoward was happening due to past abuse & said nothing to her dad?

Her dad knew??

At 17 I told my father none of the things that happened to me. For several reasons- I wasn’t sure if it had actually been assault, I was sure I would get in trouble for putting myself in risky situations, I’d be questioned over why I didn’t leave sooner, why I didn’t just say no, I didn’t discuss sex with my father. From VRs perspective there were probably other girls working there going through the same thing and perhaps both supporting each other and an element of downplaying it to each other too. Warning each other it’s not worth the risk of telling anyone as Epstein was so powerful.

diddl · 03/12/2019 10:33

"Where were her parents in all this? "

Well supposedly they knew where she was & her dad had met with JE & was fine for her to be raining/working as a masseuse for him.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 10:33

She hadn’t said Andrew raped her. She said Epstein/ Maxwell forced her.

If she was accusing him of rape things might be different. The main problem she has with him is that at the time, what HE did wasn’t illegal

BlackCatSleeping · 03/12/2019 10:33

Did anyone else read about the 12-year-old French triplets that Jean-Luc Brunel supposedly sent JE as a present? It’s all so disgusting and sordid and so many people were involved. I have absolutely no faith any of these people will receive any kind of justice. Just remember that Virginia is not the only person telling these stories. A lot of other women have come forward with similar stories.

derxa · 03/12/2019 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Devereux1 · 03/12/2019 10:35

Women in business who saw Andrew at trade shows and conferences for years know only too well what he's like...

derxa · 03/12/2019 10:35

Oops wrong thread. I'll ask for deletion

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 10:35

@Jodie77

"If abusers decide to kill themselves because the victim has told the truth, then it is not on the victim. I will not lose any sleep over it, either."
I'm not excusing abusers. I'm not losing any sleepover JE's suicide. However, we don't know for a fact that PA abused Virginia Roberts. I think it is likely he had sex with her. I'm just not sure whether he thought that VR wanted to (he does have a huge ego). It may be that JE paid VR to sleep with PA but that PA just thought he is so great and sexy and wonderful and didn't know JE had co-erced her into doing it.

VR said it didn't last long so I am presuming it was straight sex.

beautifulstranger101 · 03/12/2019 10:36

*She hadn’t said Andrew raped her. She said Epstein/ Maxwell forced her.

If she was accusing him of rape things might be different. The main problem she has with him is that at the time, what HE did wasn’t illegal*

PA having sex with a teenage girl who had been forced to do it hardly makes him come out of this situation looking like a hero though does it?

Let me re-phrase what I wrote then: If you're going down the route of looking at parental figures- perhaps a more pertinent question would be why didn't PA's mother (who just happens to be the queen of England) teach him not to have sex with teen girls who have been trafficked and forced into prostitution. Better?

Tun55 · 03/12/2019 10:36

Conviction??? I don’t think that’ll ever happen.

I’d be happy with a trial ! Just a proper TRIAL !!

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 10:36

"So what about Virginia feeling that the only way out of this is taking her own life? Isn't that equally valid a worry?"

Yes.

YouSawThePlans · 03/12/2019 10:37

pass I've been trying to find updates on what's happening with the Americans named but can't find anything since the papers were released in the summer. But yy I'm very confused about Dershowitz - I've no idea why they think he can comment. He's not in a position of moral superiority. He's thoroughly enmeshed in all of this.

To the person who asked 'why now?' iirc papers were released in the summer from VG's defamation case against GM. The papers included lots of names and that's why the story flared up again in the press. What I'm struggling with is why all those names aren't being heavily publicised and serious questions being asked. They read like a who's who of influential and wealthy American white males.But perhaps they've used some of that influence and wealth to pay for injunctions.

BlackCatSleeping · 03/12/2019 10:39

Yes, this is what I’m wondering @YouSawThePlans

SimonJT · 03/12/2019 10:40

@TheMidasTouch WTF.

She was underage, the legal age for a travelling American is 18. She was also coerced which removes her ability to consent.

If he didn’t want to feel suicidal he shouldn’t have sexually abused a child and be-friended a known peado.

Perisoire · 03/12/2019 10:41

Sorry I have missed something - why is he sayi BT he never met her when there is a picture of him with her?

Ariela · 03/12/2019 10:42

And her eye contact is steady and unwavering

Really? Watch it again with the sound off.

I have not watched wither interview with sound - speakers not connected on my screen.
However I had a quick look at some of the footage, and most times VG speaks she looks down or looks off to the side first but then seems to remember and make eye contact with the interviewer.

Prince Andrew looks faintly embarrassed but does spend far more time looking the interviewer in the eye. He blinks more when speaking than she does - liars tend to blink after speaking.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2589073/Liars-are-exposed-by-blinking.html

I'd be interested to see some analysis of both here.