VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

[churchandstate]

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

Miami Herald:
While many of his survivorss_ were underage, there were countless others who were 18 to 23, a group of women who have been reluctant to come forward because, despite the ordeal they went through, they are ashamed and believe that the public
*doesn't look at them as victims at all.

Ain't that the truth.
*

Whenever I have seen that as a reply, it's never led to anything which remotely supported the poster ... it's up there with Godwins laws as "how to lose at the internet" grin

So true

I'm still waiting to find out why Virginia couldn't possibly have been a victim because she was apparently the grand old age of 17, drove, lived somewhere and was out of rehab allegedly. Not innocent enough for the likes of Ronald?

Virginia Giuffre, who was recruited by Epstein when she was 16 and stayed with him until she was 19,

amp.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article235247637.html

You are right, I do think we are both projecting.

You see a sex slave
I see a sex worker

Both of these things may or may not be true.

I do have sympathy for VG’s childhood and reported abuse at the hands of another predatory paedophile.
She has endured a terrible time.

This stuff with PA AD etc I don’t know tbh I don’t believe it happened in one case and in the other I don’t know that he knew or could have known

@AhNowTed nope, 17. Job was at Trump’s spa post her birthday in 2000. As agreed by VG in later testimony.

I can’t find anything that supports Ronald’s assertions.

According to the Guardian VG was 15 when she met JE and 17 when she slept with PA.

At the center of this controversy is Epstein’s accuser Virginia Giuffre, who claims Maxwell recruited her to work as his masseuse when she was 15 years old. Giuffre has alleged that a sexual encounter took place with Andrew around 2001, when she was 17.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/18/ghislaine-maxwell-prince-andrew-friend-jeffrey-epstein-controversy-hiding

I can only find bits of dialogue from court documents online.

Q.”And was the statement that the FBI told you "Everything he did was illlegal because I was under age," in response to you telling them that you were age 15 when you met Jeffrey?”

A. So, yes. (She goes on to say even when she was 16,17 she was still underage.). [...]

Q.Were you a teen sex slave?
A.Yes.

I can only find bits of dialogue from court documents online. *

*ie not the complete transcript, just snatches.

@RonaldMcDonald

Source?

I see a sex worker

Ah, so that's what you were getting at.

I can’t find anything that supports Ronald’s assertions.

Because if it existed, Ronald would have posted it themselves.

Internet debating 101. Make an assertion. Insist it's "all on google". And hope that 80% of the audience never bother and just accept it. If a few troublemakers continue insisting, denigrate them, their intelligence, their dogs intelligence, their taste in clothes and so on ...

www.documentcloud.org/documents/6184408-U-S-v-Jeffrey-Epstein-Indictment.html

This is Jeffrey Epstein's indictment for the charges up to 2005. Not sure whether this for the charges for which he went to prison for in 2008. Might be of interest to some. There is a court document plus tab of text transcribing it.

Talk about desperate ...

www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250471-Epstein-Docs.html

Just in case this is of help to anyone, these are some documents that have been unsealed in the case of Guiffre v Maxwell. It can be downloaded and is 2024 pages long.

Bias for letting someone cry? Hilarious.

@AhNowTed

How are they biased when Andrew had the chance to cry if he wanted

Are they saying he cried and the BBC edited it out?

Or is it because he's been somehow rendered incapable of crying due to the adrenaline spikes he experienced after the Falklands?

AhNowTed, thank you for the Miami Herald link. It is certainly grim reading. I felt scared reading it, could actually put myself in the place of some of those girls and imagined how I would feel.

I'll be really interested to know how Ghislane defends herself. It was upsetting to read how she could be quite nasty to the girls. He had other women too in various other places who performed the same function. What a manipulator that man Epstein was!

Posters claiming others are misogynists while the accusers sound like they hate all men

Most of us in here are women and I'd hazard a guess that the majority of us are heterosexual so are either married to otherwise attached/have been attached to at least one man.

We all know not all men are like that and don't need to be told. In fact ALL of the men I know are disgusted by these pathetic perverted arseholes.

Women blaming girls and women for sexual abuse against them is misogynistic in its purest form.

Finding excuses for men who rape, coerce and abuse women is misogynistic and disgusting whether it is done by men or women. Yet somehow it is even more disgusting when done by a woman.

I believe that she had sex with him amd many others but i dont think she was forced. She willingly did those things.

Oh my fucking god not again.

I said exactly this earlier

It's like Groundhog Day here. The thread is over 24 hours old. There's been some great posts, links, research, personal accounts. But give it a few minutes and another one whose read absolutely nothing will stroll in and throw a "nobody forced her" comment.

And Prince Andrew,Beaverdam? Anything to say about him fucking a 17 year old when he was forty and hanging about with a convicted peodophile?

How brave of you to state you don’t believe a sexual abuse victim.

You see a sex slave
I see a sex worker

Sorry, it's going to be a hard-pass on that. A vulnerable teenage girl, who wasn't even over 18, which is the minimum age to legally work as an actress in the pornography industry in the UK, cannot be classified as a "sex worker". She's being abused and exploited.

She was underage by Florida laws for having consensual sex at all. Absolutely not a "sex worker".

@Beaverdam
Whether you are right or wrong, I hope you have your tin hat on. Brave of you to state that. Have you read the whole thread?

Incidentally does anyone know VG's date of birth?