VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

[churchandstate]

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

Also, we don’t know what other evidence the FBI has. If Andy likes them young, then it’s possible he did have sex with women younger than Virginia in the US.

@RonaldMcDonald she was over the age of consent in this country but she was under the age of consent in other countries where PA allegedly slept with her.

TheMidasTouch

I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina.

Christ - who's this idiot?! Seriously??!! You're in a place YOU CAN"T JUST GET OUT OF, and you're going to refuse to do that or fight someone?! You're probably thinking you're going to get killed.

I absolutely hate people who make out as though somehow it's the victim's fault.

Anyway. I've just finally caught up and watched this on BBC player. There is no doubt at all in my mind she is 100% telling the truth.

The bit that concerns me now is how long she's going to live for before she mysteriously takes her own life/has a car crash etc.

The elite rule all of this and PA is guilty as sin.

@mummmy2017

"So even thought you think legally there is not enough evidence to convict, you feel your knowledge is greater from several paid for interviews."

She was paid once by the Mail on Sunday to the tune of £120K. Hardly the millions she could have made in exposing a member of the Royal family.

I'm not focussing on one interview. I'm looking at the wider picture of dozens of young girls as young as 14 being trafficked by JE. Of which no less than 36 were identified by the FBI.

The comments about how she had a job to go back too if she turned down Epstein are either deliberately obtuse or staggeringly naive.

She worked at Mar a Lago for Trump. Trump and Epstein were friends. Do you really think as a 16/17 year old saying “No thanks, your massage thing is creepy, I’m just going to stay where I am” would have been an easy option?

Especially when you consider that her father also worked there.

An abused girl, given the “opportunity” to work for rich and powerful people who are good friends with her ultimate boss who is also her father’s boss... Yeah, I can’t see any way in which she could have been groomed or threatened quickly into seeing no option, but to go on with it...

When does trafficking end and prostitution begin? Can it never begin if it began as trafficking? Does the woman, can the woman never gain agency in the situation?

If you live in your own flat
Earn huge amounts of money - unfortunately contingent on sex acts with others
Have your own boyfriend
Your own social life
These were all the things VR had - could that not be or look like something other than trafficked?

Especially to someone outside the situation.
How would those men she met know she was trafficked in those circumstances?

The Wikipedia page on sex trafficking is very informative and I think shows clearly that under the definition of sex trafficking, Virginia absolutely was a victim of this.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking

@lyralalala VR’s job at Trump’s spa was apparently a summer job -although there is some dispute over that
She met GM outside the spa but on the spa property and made the arrangement to go with her
Trump and those at Trump’s spa had no connection to the meeting set up by GM and VR

She was not forced to go by any staff member. She had Agency and went. Once she was raped she could still have returned to her job at Trump’s spa and did so for a period until offered a role with Epstein

The horrifying thing is that this happened in plain sight.
Her father drove her there etc
Many opportunities to give her better options or ask the right questions were missed

Once she was raped she could still have returned to her job at Trump’s spa and did so for a period until offered a role with Epstein

And I’m sure GM and JE are/were such honourable people there’s absolutely no chance they could have used their connections to threaten her job or her father’s job in any way...

The fact that her father worked there jumped out at me early on in this story.

Take a previously abused child with the skewed boundaries that come with that then add in the fact that turning down someone as powerful as JE could have massive repercussions for you and your family... The opportunities for someone as predatory as JE were just ripe sadly

CBS News has reported that officials have found an email sent by PA to GM where he mentioned VR by name. It was sent in 2015.
"Got specific questions to ask you about Virginia Roberts". So he was trying to do damage control even then.

Prince Andrew needs to come clean about all this. I think he thought he was doing no wrong because it was different in those days when it took place. I remember he had quite a reputation and was called "Randy Andy" by the press. The Queen must be so upset but if he was my son I would advise him to help with FBI investigation because I am sure others will come forward with more information about him and what really happened.

@JolieOBrien

"I think he thought he was doing no wrong because it was different in those days"

"In THOSE DAYS". This was 2001.

@AhNowTed

I said it wrong what I meant was he is of a certain age when some men thought it was acceptable to behave this way. I myself have had inappropriate attention by older men in the 80s and have had to be actually rude to them to make them back off. This was in the work place and when I was out in bars. Why on earth these men who where as old my Dad thought I would actually be interested in them I have no idea.

@JolieOBrien

OK you worded it wrongly, and I accept you get it.

But I don't accept this was somehow of a different "On the Buses" age and is therefore acceptable in the context of old-fashioned views, that we no longer countenance:

This is 2001.

@AhNowTed

Unfortunately this still goes on a few years ago I was a petrol station filling up my mini when this bloke in his 60s started shouting over I used to have a mini when I was younger. I ignored him but he continued to say aww don't ignore me sweetheart and then decided to come over to me and he had a shock when I turned around because from the back I look younger with blonde hair and a slim figure. I told him to stop badgering women at petrol stations and did his wife know he does this to random women? ... he soon scurried off ... stupid old fool.

CBS News has reported that officials have found an email sent by PA to GM where he mentioned VR by name. It was sent in 2015

Could that have been after she made allegations so, in theory, he was checking what lies were being told about him.
I wouldn't tootle over to the states to see what the FBI wants to ask me. Too much risk of not coming back.
I would imagine he did sleep with her, but how can we start prosecuting someone on the she said he said evidence. She should be tackling her DF.

VR started making allegations quite some time ago, so It seems pretty obvious that PA’s email was connected to that, not just some random act

I think PA is awful and the whole interview was a car crash... he really is finished in terms of any public role now. But I also wasn’t convinced by VR... I’ve no doubt she completely believes what she’s saying (as PA believes his narrative) But there’s definitely a personal vendetta going on here... VR seems to be seizing on an opportunity because she realised much later on that the glamorous lifestyle she believed she enjoyed at the time was actually sleazy and horrible.

We’ll never know exactly what went on, or what VR or PA’s perceptions were of what exactly was happening and there’s no way PA will ever have criminal charges brought against him; i suspect he’ll now fade away from publicity.

The whole thing is a mess and neither of them seem authentic in what they are trying to present to the public

What Fikel said. The liklihood is he had a very nice time provided for him every time he was in the orbit of JE and that is why he returned again and again. PA kept saying GM was his reason for going there or associating with JE. GM looks to be every bit as culpable as JE.

One thing I get from threads like these is to keep on the right side of the law. I would never want a trial by jury if the likes of some of the posters on here might land up being one of the twelve!

@RonaldMcDonald

If you live in your own flat
Earn huge amounts of money - unfortunately contingent on sex acts with others
Have your own boyfriend
Your own social life
These were all the things VR had - could that not be or look like something other than trafficked?

Do you have the source for the above? I haven't seen this mentioned in any interviews.

I would never want a trial by jury if the likes of some of the posters on here might land up being one of the twelve

Well that's people for you. The gov can make all the laws it wants but in the end you are going to have your own views ........ as long as you don't voice them.

When I saw the pic of PA with VG, my thought was how proprietorial he looked, with his hand touching his bare waist.

In his interview, he tried to throw doubt on whether his hand been photoshopped. He knows the location of that hand makes him look creepy.

And when you know the context of that night, that GM had told VG in the taxi home that she has to do for Andrew what she does for Jeffrey, and the likelihood therefore that Andrew had told GMthat he wanted to have sex with VG, it becomes apparent that when Andrew had his hand around her bare waist that he would be having sex with her shortly.

*her bare waist

I’ve no doubt she completely believes what she’s saying (as PA believes his narrative) But there’s definitely a personal vendetta going on here... VR seems to be seizing on an opportunity because she realised much later on that the glamorous lifestyle she believed she enjoyed at the time was actually sleazy and horrible.

How is a woman trying to get justice a 'vendetta'? That's a very odd choice of word, and very misogynistic. Abuse victims don't have vendettas.

Her is the Fergie interview where she refers to herself in the third person.

It's funny because she threw in her bulimia as an excuse straightaway and Andrew in his interview shoehorned in a reference to being in the Falklands hence he doesn't sweat 😂.

No fucking accountability anywhere.

I believe her too