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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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7
SlightlyBonkersQFA · 03/12/2019 22:10

@abeautifulmess1234

AhNowTed · 03/12/2019 22:11

@mummmy2017

Are you just being wilfully ignorant.

AhNowTed · 03/12/2019 22:14

I hadn't read the Miami Herald articles before now.

amp.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article233704797.html

There's loads more, and they go into the details of the JE case much more than the British press.

Google jeffrey Epstein Miami herald

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:15

No, I am pointing out the truth.
I am not victim blaming.
PA is weird as heck, and creepy, but VR has not said he raped her.

SlightlyBonkersQFA · 03/12/2019 22:18

She said she was trafficked in to London for the purpose of pleasing whoever jeffrey and ghislain wanted her to ''keep happy''. They were older than her, her employers, she was abused as a child. They tricked her in the first place, normalised a naked massage, Ghislain ''taught'' her how to do it to lend it an air of legitimacy, then never did another one. They groomed her and took advantage of her over and over again. What planet are you on mummy2017

ohprettybaby · 03/12/2019 22:20

"In the case of Virgins Roberts, and only her, she is not saying PA raped her, she said she had sex and felt dirty afterwards."

In the interview she did say he abused her but did not accuse him of rape. I think if he was to come forward as a witness that would soon change though.

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:23

The world that holds up in court.
The only person the TV and Newspapers are interested in her talking about are PA, and only in the UK.
She is being paid because PA is the person she is talking about, that is all the media is interested in. Yet VA has not called it rape.

theWarOnPeace · 03/12/2019 22:25

mummmy2017 rape isn’t always violent. Rape isn’t always someone in a balaclava jumping out of the bushes! She was trafficked, coerced, and vulnerable. Having sex with a trafficked person is a crime. Not to say how ‘unbecoming’ AKA fucking repulsive it is. Watch her interview and watch his interview and then read all the evidence.

She is a victim.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 03/12/2019 22:26

In the case of Virgins Roberts, and only her, she is not saying PA raped her, she said she had sex and felt dirty afterwards.

Do you believe in active or passive consent? Which?

Bluerussian · 03/12/2019 22:27

I don't think anyone thinks he raped her and no doubt he thought it was consensual, yucky though it is. In the photo of him standing with Virginia, Ghislane in the background, he still looks quite young and isn't fat, it was a good many years ago before he got jowly and he was good looking then. So hardly surprising she was excited about being with a prince - poor lass.

Honestly we on here (& I know some of us have had bad experiences), are so fortunate not to mix in those circles. I'm very grateful for my ordinary life.

When I was a teenager I knew some girls at school who were involved in...things like that. I wonder where they are now or even if they're alive, I expect some are, 69/70 years old. The things they told me certainly completed my education, I was even tempted to dip my toe in the water at one time. Knowing me as well as I do I'd never have been able to handle it.

Perisoire · 03/12/2019 22:29

According to this Miami Herald article quoted in Wikipedia, Giuffre brought a case against Maxwell for defamation. The case was settled out of court for 'millions'. Why would Giuffre keep fighting this if it wasn't true?

"Epstein’s ‘Madame’ and girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, told the world that Ms. Giuffre was a liar. Ms. Giuffre filed a defamation action.’

The case was settled in Giuffre’s favor, with Maxwell paying Giuffre millions.

Maxwell wants the case to remain sealed and earlier tried to get the judge to destroy the sealed documents, but her motion was denied earlier this week."

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/12/2019 22:30

She was coerced. Ergo the sex was not consensual. Coercion is illegal.

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:30

I totally agree she was a victim.
But I think there is a lot more to this story.

Perisoire · 03/12/2019 22:33

"In the case of Virgins Roberts, and only her, she is not saying PA raped her, she said she had sex and felt dirty afterwards."

Giuffre was told 'to do to Andrew what she does to Jeffrey' by Maxwell.

She was coerced and sex trafficked. She didn't decide to have sex with Andrew of her own volition, she said he was sweaty and disgusting.

AhNowTed · 03/12/2019 22:34

She was young, passed around "like a bowl of fruit". What the fuck did he think she, and the string of identikit young girls were doing there. Giving him his grotesque foot massage and laid-on sex.

Start reading for fuck sake. It's all there in the public domain.

amp.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article233704797.html

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:39

Look at the picture of PA, he was still young.
He is stupid, stuffy and dense.
But do you really think he has ever had to force himself on a woman?

Sarcelle · 03/12/2019 22:42

Where is Maxwell? What is happening with regard to her part in this? That Herald article is chilling.

BlackCatSleeping · 03/12/2019 22:43

@mummmy2017

But do you really think he has ever had to force himself on a woman?

Seriously, you are either trolling or you are seriously sick in the head to say such a disgusting thing.

Plenty of rich, powerful men have been accused of rape. Their looks have nothing to do with it.

There are many rape survivors on this thread. You are being extremely insensitive and offensive.

Sarcelle · 03/12/2019 22:46

He was 41 when the photo was taken. Middle aged, not young. She was 17.

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:48

No, I am only talking about one person, someone who at the time would have been very visible, a target for Newspapers.
For anyone who has been attacked I am 100% behind them getting justice, but VR is not saying this.

AhNowTed · 03/12/2019 22:49

@mummmy2017

What do you think he was thinking when a young girl, in the company of much older, richer, powerful people, is handed to him on a plate?

theWarOnPeace · 03/12/2019 22:50

But do you really think he has ever had to force himself on a woman?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Nobody’s saying he grabbed her into a room and attacked her. He wanted her, he is as entitled as it gets, she ‘belonged’ to his friends, and they handed her over. I’m sure he would have viewed an outright attack as rather unbecoming. That doesn’t give him the right to have sex with a trafficked teenager! She cannot consent because she has been trafficked. When you are trafficked you no longer can legally consent. its similar to someone under 16 having sex, even if it’s consensual - it’s still statutory rape under the law because the person by definition cannot lawfully give that consent.

To give him the benefit of ignorance, as some people are trying to do - does nobody think he should have asked himself why a 17 year old American CHILD was available to have sex with him in central London, under the care of two middle aged socialites who were completely unrelated to her, and had a penchant for sordid sexual behaviour. On what planet is that a normal way to meet a woman for consensual sex???

mummmy2017 · 03/12/2019 22:52

I think he did sleep with VR, but I don't think it ever entered his head she was not willing.
I think he is stupid, entitled and ignorant.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/12/2019 22:52

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