VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

[churchandstate]

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

So what are you saying mummy?

Girls pretending to be 18 to get into clubs are asking to be raped? Out to frame innocents as paedos? What?

No , I am saying we don't know the truth, I doubt we ever will.

The whole 'point' of grooming is to make the victim feel as if they were complicit, this then further compounds the damage done by the abuse
These people are predators

Passed off = pissed off

“The Daily Mail really are on a witch hunt against PA. I wonder why? I don’t think it’s just about selling papers. He’s definitely passed off the wrong person.”

I think it’s to get harry and Megan to back off with their legal case against the mail on Sunday

We do know the truth. She was sex trafficked. She was forced to hang out with Prince Andrew at the time of being sex trafficked. His only defence is he ‘can’t remember’.

If it walks like a duck etc

I personally feel that this is exactly why JE sought out such high profile “friends”. He knew this would never get to court because PA (and potentially Clinton and Trump) who have a myriad of protection. Not just politically and socially, but the love of the British people would mean no one wants to believe this.

I think there is confusion around age of consent in USA so it feels hard to understand how she states she was trafficked?
Also grooming seems to not fit this case as we understand it.

Is it because she was 17? In the UK that makes it legal to have sex with her but in the US it is illegal?
I think also as she was working when approached by Maxwell to ‘work for’ Epstein. Because our common conception of grooming always feels like it happens to a child and that there is fear, violence etc. Not to a young woman working at a high end hotel as a masseuse who then spent years travelling around with Epstein and Maxwell.
To those men who had sex with her - if she seemed willing and they didn’t pay how we’re they to know she was unwilling? How could they imagine she was trafficked?

For me and most trafficked feels like something you cannot escape and obvious to the outside world.

As well as huge leverage to cut plea deals. As he did.

I think it’s to get harry and Megan to back off with their legal case against the mail on Sunday

Maybe...

But, you know Geordie Greig (the Daily Mail editor) is an old friend of Ghislaine Maxwell and was also listed in Jeffrey Epstein's black book.

You don't think it's possible that PA is being hung out to dry as a warning to others?

@RonaldMcDonald I think you’re missing some bits of info

You can be trafficked at any age

She worked as a locker room attendant not a masseuse. They promised to get her proper masseuse training

@RonaldMcDonald who’s “we”? Your ignorance is your own.

I didn’t know that, interesting, right up the mails street too

Bluerussian Tue 03-Dec-19 11:47:48

Puzzledandpissedoff Tue 03-Dec-19 11:39:58
"a newspaper has published an email PA sent to (Ghislaine) when news broke that Virginia was accusing JE of trafficking her."
....
Bluerussian Tue 03-Dec-19 11:47:48
"Yes, I noted that an email was found from him - didn't say much though, was quite innocuous.2
Innocuous - really? The day after PA was mentioned in US court documents, he sends an email at 5.50 a.m. telling Ghislaine he has specific questions about Virginia Roberts. This is one of the things I find most damning. "Let me know when we can talk. Got some specific questions to ask you about Virginia Roberts". I would have expected him to email asking who the hell VR is as he seems to have no recollection of ever meeting her. He did not do that though.

The wording still isn't proof that he knew and remembered her but it doesn't sit well with me at all. At least it shows he was up early so probably struggling to sleep over it.

I think there is confusion around age of consent in USA so it feels hard to understand how she states she was trafficked?

The Mann act doesn't care about consent, or age.

I'm not keen on him at all but I try not to make judgements on the big issues without looking at all sides and, preferably with actual evidence

Really? You seem happy enough to make nauseating misogynist baseless judgments about VG.

BlackCat yy I'm wondering why the DM has suddenly changed its stance on this. The media always sit on lots of stories about the RF, celebrities, politicians. For some reason, PA has become fair game and I wonder why. Usually it would be to keep attention from somewhere else (or someone else) or it would be because the RF has tacitly given approval. It could be because Charles wants to downsize the RF anyway and this means PA can be sidelined without it turning into a public battle between the brothers.

Everyone believed the Westminster Sex Scandal, yet it was proved false.
Yet the newspaper articles were so convincing.

Ones fake so they are all fake, right?

a decent man wouldn’t have touched the situation with a barge pole.
Precisely! You have to be an utter idiot to not notice or to be a man of questionable morals to allow yourself to spend time in such an environment or with people like that. That’s the starting point.

Oh and in 2015 160k Dollars was still around 95k Sterling.

No I’ve just double-checked. The DM say they paid her in 2011.

The photo of the pair - with Maxwell also in frame - was first published in 2011 after the Mail on Sunday tracked down Virginia Giuffre and paid her $160,000 for her story.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7748397/THAT-photo-Prince-Andrew-Virginia-Roberts-100-real-says-ex-boyfriend.html

@PippiDeLena

MidasTouch:
"If they just had straight sex, which may have been the case as it didn't take long, and VR has stated "he was not mean" then it doesnt sound like she was abused by him."

PippiDeLena:
"Wtf?! What do you think would constitute abuse? Because being flown across the world and coerced into having sex with random men is abuse, and if you won't even acknowledge that then I don't know what to say to you."
You are getting mixed up between what JE did and what PA did. Even VR is only stating PA had sex with her. Isn't it JE who is being accused of flying her across the world to have sex with random men? JE may have abused VR but there is nothing to say PA knew about it and was therefore complicit in that abuse. We do need to get facts right.

I'm not saying she hasn't been abused. JE has abused her. IF PA knew she had been forced to have sex with him then that would also make him an abuser. The $64,000 question is whether he knew or not.
I'm not aware that she is accusing him of flying her across the world to

I thought she was very convincing and I believe her