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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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7
Cremebrule · 03/12/2019 11:52

Even if he was totally innocent of everything, there was some basic questions he should have asked himself:

  1. is staying with Epstein for 5 days a sensible course of action given his convictions and PA role with children’s charities? Clearly not. There is no way this should have happened. Why did it take 5 days to break off a friendship (that wasn’t that close but seemed to have lasted years and needed a week to break-off...)

Given that most people believe he had sex with VG- another set of basic questions would have probably kept him away from trouble:

Where have these young girls come from, are they here of their own free will, are they of legal age, is there a power imbalance, are they being paid? At best, it wouldn’t be a stretch to think Epstein was hiring escorts (which would have been murky enough) but it wouldn’t have taken a lot of critical thought to realise there might be some grooming or trafficking involved. Anyone with an once of sense or integrity would have run a mile.

didofido · 03/12/2019 11:53

doublebarrellednurse.

I am all for women supporting women - have daughters and grand-daughters myself. But not assuming the female is always and in every case totally innocent. Always blaming the man is just the flip side of the old attitude of always blaming the woman.

These things are nuanced.

And that ISN'T a comment on the VG/PA case.

doublebarrellednurse · 03/12/2019 11:53

@WingingItSince1973 ❤️

exiledfromcornwall · 03/12/2019 11:54

In answer to PP's point about parents, sadly it is common practice for girls from unstable family backgrounds to be targeted by these vultures. One needs to look no further than what has been going on in certain parts of this country to see that.

Marcipex · 03/12/2019 11:54

I believe her.

BanoffeeTart · 03/12/2019 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SerendipityJane · 03/12/2019 11:57

Given that most people believe he had sex with VG- another set of basic questions would have probably kept him away from trouble:

At the risk of being indelicate, but remembering a certain Bill Clinton, I find myself wondering if there is more evidence than has been disclosed ? More pertinently if PA and chums don't know if there is such evidence ?

Bluerussian · 03/12/2019 11:59

TatianaLarina Tue 03-Dec-19 11:44:40
This does make her look like she is out for money and people may lack sympathy for her.

Only to people who are shallow and materialistic slash misogynist.

The payment came a long time after she first made the allegations and had to leave her home.
........
Nobody could possibly blame her for taking money. In her position I would go after any big payouts on offer and then disappear from the public gaze. I have to say I wouldn't want my children to know about my past though.

All academic because no one is going to give me a lot of money for my story :-), I am content with my fairly ordinary, low key life with no publicity because I'm a private person.

However I can't help thinking - what comes next, a book, film, TV mini series?

diddl · 03/12/2019 11:59

"Even if he was totally innocent of everything, there was some basic questions he should have asked himself"

I agree.

But I'm not sure any/many of the RF have the sense they were born with if there's a sniff of money/a luxury freebie.

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 12:01

However I can't help thinking - what comes next, a book, film, TV mini series?

BlueRussian, again, what’s your point?

Mintjulia · 03/12/2019 12:01

In the end it makes no difference what we think. The US has trial by jury where evidence, not gossip, is presented in front of a judge & jury.
If the American legal process can put together a case, then he should go to the US and appear under oath.

But all this trial by rumour/tv is abhorrent. It’s like watching a witch trial.

He may be foolish, out of touch, guilty or innocent but he’s entitled to a fair legal process just the same as the rest of us.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 03/12/2019 12:01

doublebarrelled trafficking wasn't a crime at the time the encounters took place. There is no way it can be applied retrospectively. It doesn't mean her didn't act immorally and in a deeply unsavoury way, but at the time, it wasn't illegal. Thankfully we have moved on now and it can be prosecuted, but PA did not break the law of the time.

caperberries · 03/12/2019 12:02

The disturbing 'sugardaddy' trend is becoming more common, plenty of young girls are actively soliciting older men on social media to support them, I have a niece at university and she's told me a couple of her friends have done this. I really hope this interview gives them something to think about.

BanoffeeTart · 03/12/2019 12:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Passthecherrycoke · 03/12/2019 12:09

Why would there be a film or mini series that she could profit from?! That doesn’t even make any sense.

SerendipityJane · 03/12/2019 12:09

In the end it makes no difference what we think. The US has trial by jury where evidence, not gossip, is presented in front of a judge & jury.

It may also be a Grand Jury has been convened (if so no one would know and it may explain some slience) and is looking at whether to lay charges or not.

IamPickleRick · 03/12/2019 12:09

I can completely relate to what she said before this interview about not realising it was so abusive until she had her own children. I know this sounds mad, because the things done to you were the same before and after having your own kids, however you start to see what a typical loved and cherished 8yo/10yo etc is like and understand how far from that you were at the same age, because of your experiences. It opens everything up that you may have sat on or blocked out from your mind.

That’s why I believe her. Even in spite of the inconsistencies, when you are in a situation like that memories do become foggy. She was on a private island at times. How does one even escape that even if you do have a passport? You’ve got no transport that isn’t owned by the man imprisoning you? And if you did escape you have no family to go to anyway.

PA and Ghislaine need to be brought to justice.

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 12:10

Surely if anyone should be donating to Women’s Aid it’s Prince Andrew? The one who is now unable to deny he was friends with a convicted sex trafficker of young women?

TatianaLarina · 03/12/2019 12:11

PA is more than welcome to go and make a statement to the FBI rather than give ill-advised interviews. Oh he’s not? That’s entirely on him.

TatianaLarina · 03/12/2019 12:12

However I can't help thinking - what comes next, a book, film, TV mini series?

Really because you see this case as some kind of entertainment?

Would you say that to WingingIt?

LaurieMarlow · 03/12/2019 12:12

He may be foolish, out of touch, guilty or innocent but he’s entitled to a fair legal process just the same as the rest of us.

I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. That’s the problem. He has extensive protection against a ‘fair trial’ making a total mockery of the concept.

Harpingon · 03/12/2019 12:14

He needs to go to America and stand trial like anyone else would have to. I believe her.

IamPickleRick · 03/12/2019 12:14

The puppet story is also intriguing. Where is the puppet now? If Ghislaine did indeed buy it from a Spitting Image collector or someone who worked on the show, surely that is a paper trail to back up the story of VG and the other lady who says PA touched her breast.

SerendipityJane · 03/12/2019 12:15

'But all this trial by rumour/tv is abhorrent. It’s like watching a witch trial.He may be foolish, out of touch, guilty or innocent but he’s entitled to a fair legal process just the same as the rest of us.'

Except with a shed load more money.

If the Royals want the Great British Public fawning all over them, they have to accept the quid pro quo of (a) being in the public eye and (b) at least pretending they give a shit about anyone else.

It's hard to underplay how much anger some people feel having realised that not only have they been forced into paying for these peoples lifestyles all these years to finally see where it's gone.

BanoffeeTart · 03/12/2019 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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