If this was the response you heard in the background on the phone, how would you feel?

[Alrighteo]

Context: Relates to two family members.

Have been trying to get through to one family member unsuccessfully for about a week now (emails & whatsapp calls/messages). Nothing answered.

So I rang another family member, who I knew was in the company of the one I was trying to get through to. The second one who answered the phone said, 'she's busy now, she's cooking dinner' and I said 'it's literally 2 seconds to clarify something.

Second family member says to the elusive one 'Can you spare two seconds?'. First family member says 'FFS WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH HER NOW?'.

For various reasons I can't eliminate contact with first family member. So what would you do, what would you think? My brother has recommended a book to me (though he has a different experience/relationship with first family member).

How do I deal with someone who is an utterly manipulative, bullying cunt and maintain my sanity?

As an analogy, think ex husband, and you're ringing about an issue with the children, you get through to his sister and that's what you hear in the background...........

This is the weirdest thing I've read on MN. So many inconsistencies in this story. Severely abused by your mum as a child but now you've left the country and your child to live with her etc. I don't think this thread is about Xmas presents but I do hope you can speak to someone honestly about all of this and get the help you need. Also hope your DD is ok and gets any help she needs too.

I can just about get that your mum put on a show of being great while you were at your worst to get custody of your DD but I really don't understand why you'd then move to another country and leave your DD with someone as abusive as you say your mother is. Something doesn't add up, very strange. If my child was put into the care of someone that abused me and there was nothing I could do, you can guarantee that I'd be living close by and popping by ALOT

To answer a question which has cropped up more than once - Why do I live in another country?

It was do or die. My mother was destroying me more and more and the only option offered to me, by my Dad's side of the family was to leave the country. Don't engage with her. Your life is worth something too.

So I weighed it up for a few days and eventually decided that I was better off to dd being alive and far away, than dead.

It's no more complicated than that.

I am inclined to say YABU because I have been the family member who won't be left alone and I thought the lack of phone answering and response would send a message and I'd be quite disturbed if they rang someone else to get hold of me

I still don’t understand. Your mother was so damaging you had to get far away from her - this I understand.

Why did you leave your daughter behind?

I don’t think you’re unreasonable here

There are some really judgemental and downright nasty replies here to a poster who is obviously very distressed and in a deeply unhappy situation and who has spoken about a history of suicide attempts and mental illness. I'm honestly amazed that MNHQ haven't stepped in.

OP, if you are still reading then it's not your fault that your mum was/is abusive. It's not your fault that she won't respond and of course given that your DD lives with her it will be extremely worrisome when she stonewalls you. Sending a few emails that are ignored and following up with a phone call is NOT harassment. You didn't deserve the response you got from your mother. You haven't come across as difficult or unreasonable or unpleasant on this thread, contrary to some of the arsehole replies. You just sound very distressed and very frustrated.

I really hope that things get better for you soon. Is there any prospect of your DD being able to live with you again?

I have just RTFT.

In the best possible way OP I think you need help. Your pain is palpable. I too have a toxic relationship with my mother for many reasons and I have been told many times to go NC, but it is NOT that easy. I'd hate for her to be raising my DD. Obviously you've given us one example of one situation and people are running away with that and making assumptions about your relationship with your mum - but I know better than anyone that the full picture is so so different!!

Self help books are a great idea. I read "Toxic Parents: overcoming their hurtful legacy". Its brilliant. But please do get real life support xx

I'm guessing that the OP is sending gifts directly from the supplier to her mother and asking her mother to wrap them up for the OPs daughter. That is why she doesn't want her daughter to open them as it will spoil the suprise. And that is why she is trying to contact her mother about the presents. My guess is also she is desperately trying to get some interaction from her mother as she has missed out on that during childhood.

OP - I wonder if you have had any therapy about your relationship with your mother? It could be a good idea if not. I also agree with others to try to save your energy for your relationship with your daughter it must be very difficult.

Why is your dd with your mother? How old is dd? Is your mother abusive to your dd also?

Yes, when she gets old enough to make her own decisions. I'm hoping she'll come to uni here. Or at least work here for the summer. Problem is, I only have a one bed flat, and of course my mother has a 3 bed house as part of the separation settlement from my father. My dd isn't an idiot, but I can still sense the fear and unease with her, though she puts on a brave face. It's impossible to describe my mother. Think street angel, house devil. Your typical abuser. Everyone who meets her thinks she's an angel. What she does and says behind closed doors is a different story altogether.

For my sanity, and to stay alive to put it brutally, I have had to distance myself from the fact that I have a dd at all. The pain and the fear and worry and the anxiety knowing what she's living through is too much for me to bear.

Unfortunately, somebody with good intentions told lies about our mother and their opinion held more sway than mine. That's why she lives with my mother. I fought it all the the way, but the alternative was a court. Her godmother was willing to have her, but my DEAR mother got her claws right in.

It's almost impossible to describe, but not only did my mother not see me as a person capable of raising a child, she felt that she had ownership of my dd. She could not accept that I was a mother now. She had to own my child. And she won. I could prattle on for hours with anecdotes, but this is AIBU so it would be wasted on those of you who think I'm harassing my lovely DM.

@maddening If you read my responses on the thread, I think I've covered your questions.

She had to own my child. And she won. I could prattle on for hours with anecdotes, but this is AIBU so it would be wasted on those of you who think I'm harassing my lovely DM.

I think YWBU to come on here asking a simple question when there is such a complex and pressing backstory.

I also think that YABU for not grasping the damage it will do to your DD to leave her in the exact same setup that left you in such a state you attempted suicide and felt you had to leave the country. I know it's hard but it looks like facing up to what you are exposing your DD to is absolutely crucial here.

It sounds like you've just given up. I would drop contact about all the trivial things, get a lawyer and work on finding a way to get your DD out of that abusive environment.

No proof of any abuse and dd is so scared of social workers (they took her off me) she will lie.
On paper, dd is thriving.

There is literally nothing I can do.

It was do or die. My mother was destroying me more and more and the only option offered to me, by my Dad's side of the family was to leave the country. Don't engage with her. Your life is worth something too.

But you’re engaging. On multiple channels. And not stopping till you get the response you want.

You’re hurting yourself more by doing this.

I can’t begin to fathom how your daughter must be doing

@Butterisbest

You act like it’s not possible that some of the posters here have been in similar places as the OP say she’s been. Did you stop to think they have and it makes the OP’s actions sound even stranger??

Just something to ponder while you give yourself a break from all that judgmental activity you seem to be participating in.

Why didn't her Dad have her?

I get it. She has differing values and beliefs about life, relationships and how to behave. You are trying to do the thing you believe to be right, sending gifts, making sure they are given in the 'right' way according to your beliefs. She is different. She is either abusive and difficult or burned out by your relationship. It's hard to tell from your OP. You are only going to continue to hurt by expecting a relationship with her based on your ideals rather than reality. I'd be perfunctory and factual for the sale of your dd and seek attunement and secure attachment from someone else.

Could you arrange to see pour daughter over Christmas? I am sure she would prefer to see you than get expensive presents.

Could you and/or her dad check in with her away from your mum just to see what exactly is going on there?

Believe me, I've battled for years. It's been 10 years. I finally accepted that to stay alive, I need to accept my powerlessness in this situation and just try to keep myself alive for dd's sake.
I'm just surprised to hear so many posters think that 'WTF is wrong with her now?' is an acceptable way for a mother to talk about their dd - ESPECIALLY when they have custody of my dd and it relates to dd's Christmas presents.
Believe me - I don't ring the woman for daily chit chat. I emailed her, got no reply, tried a couple of times to phone on whatsapp and then today rang dd and that's what I heard her say - in front of my dd and my uncle.
I have actually gleaned some advice from some of the nasty replies. I need to completely cut my mother out of my life. Entirely. Problem is, I worry that if something happens dd and my mother tries to get through, I won't answer and then............
I don't know what has my mother in such a fuckknot at the moment. Whether its Christmas coming or something else. About 2 weeks ago, dd needed consent for the HPV vaccine and my mother couldn't sign it (there is nothing formal in writing - I 'voluntarily' agreed to allow my dd to live with my Mum').

She has been weird since then. I think it rankled her that I'm still actually dd's Mum and that she actually HAS ZERO SAY over dd.
She also hates that we're quite close. I'm also quite liberal, whereas my mother is not.
My mother is almost 70. She is a horrible nasty woman who can put on an unbelievable show - Oscar worthy. In public she appears shy, humble, loving etc. At home she shouts, roars, hits, controls, manipulates, terrifies etc. My father's name for her is Saddam (after Saddam Hussein). She used to beat him up as well as us.
Anyway, I think that's enough disclosure for one day to randomers who won't understand the dynamics. I probably won't bother reading the replies in the morning as I really don't need to read abuse.

I'm sorry if y'all's Mum's talk about you the same way mine does that you think it's normal. Dd is still young and I'm trying to surprise her. That unfortunately requires the cooperation of my mother. From now on, I will not try to force the pretence. I vow to never speak to my mother again, if I can help it. It's doing me no good whatsoever.

I speak to my Dad every day and while he's capable of giving me a bollocking, we chat for about 30 mins every day. I always adored my Dad, and I think my mother couldn't cope with that if she had stopped beating me up, I might have adored her too

YABU. You harassed her repeatedly over a trivial matter; so much contact about it was over the top and unnecessary. The first email was fine; it is irrelevant that you did not receive a reply.

From the situations you have described and your attitude on this thread I would say you have a lot to work on in terms of communication.

I'm just surprised to hear so many posters think that 'WTF is wrong with her now?' is an acceptable way for a mother to talk about their dd -

It is when that mother is being harassed by their kid.

Op, why did you post about such a sensitive subject on AIBU? In future, post in Relationships where you will receive sensitive and kindly replies. You won't get that on here sweetheart ♥️

@saltinesandcoffeecups