To think that being in a high tax bracket doesn't mean you work 'harder'

[dietcokeandgalaxyplease]

I'm so so sick of reading about people who welcome the Tory's tax reduction for high earners because of course they 'work hard' and why should they be penalised.
AIBU to think that even though you work HARD you don't always earn a lot? I genuinely think that if you earn more you should contribute more.
I'm a nurse married to a paramedic. Neither of us are paying the higher tax rate.... obviously we need to work harder???? 😡

Yawn.

I agree with you.
Many lower paid jobs require extremely hard work and extremely long hours.
Sometimes it's nothing more than privilege which gains you a higher wage.

@ColaFreezePop why yawn?

I'm a nurse married to a paramedic. Neither of us are paying the higher tax rate

Just for fun, calculate the actual amount of income tax each of you is currently paying compared to someone on 60k, 80k, 100k, or 150k.

And then ask yourself if you wouldn’t like to be able to pay a little less if you were in one of those brackets.

I work hard, but I've never thought I work harder than anyone else who earns more or less than me. Wages vary so much by role and sector. Some jobs are physically taxing, some are mentally and some are both. But all are vital to the running of society in one way or another.
Most of us want to earn more. For some it's easier than others. Outgoings vary. You may be on a high wage but for whatever reason your outgoings are high but only on essentials.
The most important thing is that the time you spend at work you enjoy. Life's too short to spend the majority of your waking hours hating every minute.

@CendrillonSings what?

I think some of the hardest workers will be those on minimum wage.

I'm a higher rate tax payer, and I agree with you. Yes, I work hard, and I've worked hard to get where I am, but so have lots of other people who don't happen to earn as much as I do.

It's entirely fair that I should contribute a higher proportion of my salary because I can afford to contribute more.

@Pardalis yes I agree with you but what if the job you wish to do will never ever get you into the high earner bracket?
I think that if you earn more you pay more into our society

@AlexaShutUp x

What?

Precisely what I said. If you’re paying the basic rate of income tax and can make full use of your tax-free allowance, the size of your contribution to the Exchequer should be relatively small, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of your gross income.

Then repeat the calculation if you earned 100k or 150k, and spot the difference.

Obviously I’m not saying anything about how hard you work, which I imagine is pretty damned hard!

I personally think it is unfair that if you earn a lot of money you not only lose your personal allowance, but you also pay 45% tax on some of your income

I actually think that we should make min wage and zero hours workers pay more tax, especially those doing the super easy jobs like care workers.
It's only fair.

I do get that. If you are only just getting onto the higher tax band it must feel like whatever you've earned is most in tax.

@Doingtheboxerbeat you're joking yeah???

My DH is in the higher tax bracket and we live in a country where taxes are higher than U.K. It's painful to see the exact amount of tax removed on his salary slip. BUT we have good schools, roads and hospitals. A benefits system that isn't amazing but is humane. There are food banks but very few in comparison to the U.K. People want to pay lower tax here and they have no idea how that would change their society.

I've lived places where there is virtually no tax and all that does is make the relatively wealthy mini-philanthropists. They give money to help people because there are so many people needing help, however, it's very inefficient and requires poor people to literally beg for money from their employers to take their child to hospital, because they can't afford the hospital fees or even a taxi there.

Being in the higher tax band is a social privilege and sure you work hard, sure there's are often (not always) big responsibilities and/or years of expensive training that come with that. But it's not related to hard work.

I completely agree that some of the most poorly-paid professions (nurses, firefighters) work the hardest.

But

When people talk about working hard they presumably also mean the work that was done in the 20-30 years before the high tax earners hit that tax bracket. So if person A currently works a low-paid job but spent time at school and uni dossed around while person B worked their arse off that entire time then joined, say, a bank where they were worked to the bone for the first 5-10 years of their career, then yes, they have worked "harder".

Tbf most of the highly-paid people I know genuinely do work insanely long hours and, more crucially, worked even more insane hours when we were younger (and of course worked very hard at school/uni).

@ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen yeah I get where you're coming from totally.

Of course they don’t work harder. My dh works in IT, I’m a teacher - he earns thousands more than me but doesn’t work any harder than I do.

It’s Tory bullshit to justify lower taxes which naturally lead to a less equitable society but they don’t give a shit because they don’t use the services those taxes pay for.

Worked harder in college maybe. But after that, well-paid work is easier IMO. And generally a little more secure and a little more flexible. My DH sits on his arse all day and earns a lot. Mainly because he has nerdy skills that are hard to come by. Not because he works harder. My mate who is a cleaner and her DH who works at McDonalds work a lot harder than me and DH.

@dietcokeandgalaxyplease, I might be yeah. Sorry, I'm just so fecking annoyed with rich powerful people who are selfish arseholes and I should feel sorry for them.
I earn less than £20k and I would be more than happy to pay a little extra tax for the less fortunate because there for the grace of God etc.

I worked very hard at school and university, and I carry a lot of responsibility in my current role, but I don't work insane hours, never have done. And tbf, a lot of nurses, teachers worked hard at school and university too.

I had the particular luck of being naturally gifted with regard to academic stuff, and the combination of natural ability plus hard work certainly helped me to succeed. However, there were kids who worked every bit as hard as me, or perhaps harder, but didn't enjoy the same level of academic success. Just as I was never going to be an Olympic runner, no matter how hard I trained.

Hard work is undoubtedly essential, but there is a whole lot of luck involved too - natural ability, family background, financial advantages, being in the right place at the right time. People are absolutely kidding themselves if they believe that they're better off solely because of hard work.

@AlexaShutUp you hit the nail on the head! You sound nice though, all the best xx

Ah, thank you OP. I grew up in a fairly middle class home but my parents came from very humble beginnings and made sure that we had no illusions about the advantages that we enjoyed. Their own parents worked incredibly hard but simply didn't have the same opportunities.

Let's hope that, whoever gets elected, we'll move in the direction of a fairer distribution of income all round.

Some may work harder (eg a city lawyer working 20 hours a day may work harder than someone working 9-5) but many also won’t - it’s impossible to compare like with like.

But totally agree that A higher rate TP should pay a higher proportion of salary to tax (although it is still painful seeing how much tax Is actually paid in a year).

That said I think the HR TP threshold should increase - in London for example a HR TP could struggle to pay rent/mortgage and other living costs on their take home pay if they were also looking after a family.

Additional rate TP threshold is fine - and it’s fair they lose the personal allowance by that point.