To think that being in a high tax bracket doesn't mean you work 'harder'

[dietcokeandgalaxyplease]

I'm so so sick of reading about people who welcome the Tory's tax reduction for high earners because of course they 'work hard' and why should they be penalised.
AIBU to think that even though you work HARD you don't always earn a lot? I genuinely think that if you earn more you should contribute more.
I'm a nurse married to a paramedic. Neither of us are paying the higher tax rate.... obviously we need to work harder???? 😡

What does working hard mean? Sure someone who works in CostCo could have a more physically demanding job than a doctor or engineer, but the latter are usually expected to work until the job’s done not necessarily just around their hours. The latter may also have jobs that lives depends on.

My job in banking, for example, without going into too many details can help prevent money laundering / people trafficking / drugs and other related crime not just for customers but people across the world - I never work 9-5, always longer, and am constantly researching new strategies and new avenues to help customers. I even help the police co-ordinate and plan investigations. To have someone suggest I don’t work hard just because I don’t need to physically carry boxes is insulting

I see nurses teachers and fire fighters as working hard, care work, retail work etc is hard. I wouldn't want to do it.

Its not great rhetoric to play people off against each other like this.

I dont think fat cat salaries are ever justified a lot of people get very well paid jobs because of social background (class). Some people get obscene amounts of money and should contribute more to society.

I do think a certain level of senior professional and commercial salary is not high if you consider the amount of time that person devotes to the job. Usually working their way up at low hourly wage equivalent, doing crazy hours, giving up holiday, lots of stress and responsibility.

The 40% rate kicks in way too early as does the 45%. Especially when you consider how expensive life is now.

I like the increase in the tax allowances.
At the moment I am on the limit which means if I do Over time I am taxed at the higher rate which makes it less appealing, besides I value my spare time more than money.
I have to agree that the more you earn the less you appear to work IE hard labour but you are paid for the knowledge/expertise you have gained over time.

I come from humble background started work at 16 and have done low paid jobs but applied myself worked hard to educate myself and climbed the greasy pole to where I am now.

I think income tax should be a flat 20% across the board. then everyone is taxed equally.

Saying that people with higher incomes work hard so shouldn't be take so much isn't saying that they work harder than other people. There's isn't a comparison there. You are inventing that.

You (and I) may work hard, but if we don't earn enough to pay higher rate tax then this policy doesn't affect us. Why are you making it about you? It isn't about you. It's about other people who also deserve to be considered by the government.

Personally, I think the current threshold for higher rate tax is too low, it should be reserved for people that really do earn mega money, not just those that earn more than average.

I think you have to be careful about the tax rich people obsession. Doctors are leaving the NHS in droves as the laws were changed about pensions and they can be taxed thousands for a few hours work.

No it doesn't mean you work harder. It's just part of the Tory's plan to self-congratulate the high earners, make them believe they deserve to be treated differently and are being looked after by the party. It also demonises those lower-earners, creates a "them and us" culture and perpetuates the theory that we are only as successful as we want to be.

That said, I don't agree with Labour's plan to demonise the high-earners and perpetuate the theory that they are only successful because they've shafted the low-earners on the way. And that they should be penalised for that.

IMO everyone should recognise their good fortune, through hard work, luck, whatever, and feel a sense of social responsibility to those less fortunate or who choose to do much-needed lower paying jobs. Paying tax relative to what you earn shouldn't be seen as punitive, but levelling the playing field.

I think income tax should be a flat 20% across the board. then everyone is taxed equally

I agree but think it should be 30 percent!

I don't work 'harder' than my dsis who is a low paid teaching assistant, but I have far more responsibility. If my business goes tits up then 20 people lose their jobs. I rarely take holidays. I constantly have to innovate and adapt. I don't think many people would do that for 17k pa.

It’s good to see higher earners on here wanting and willing to give more back to the less well off, health, education etc.
I’ve often read on here the notion that high earners are all so keen to hang on to all their hard earned money that they’ll leave the country rather than pay more tax. And we’re supposed to be upset by that idea!

There is a huge huge difference between higher rate tax payers and those threatening To leave the country due to higher tax (that difference running into the tens of millions of pounds)

I’ll be honest and say I’d rather not pay more tax. I don’t really notice it leaving but of course I would like more money.

My job involves exploiting tax loopholes and it seems bizarre to be desperate to contribute a few hundred more whilst saving my organisation millions. Taking from the small person isn’t really the way to increase revenue. Tax planning, whilst accepting loopholes will always exist, is.

That said, I don't agree with Labour's plan to demonise the high-earners and perpetuate the theory that they are only successful because they've shafted the low-earners on the way. And that they should be penalised for that.

Please can you show me a quote from Labour that says this? Some huge businesses have ‘shafted’ low earners, dodged tax etc. And need to be called to account. It doesn’t mean all high earners have done this.

That said, I don't agree with Labour's plan to demonise the high-earners and perpetuate the theory that they are only successful because they've shafted the low-earners on the way. And that they should be penalised for that

I fucking hate this attitude. There's something on Facebook atm about a 'boss' driving a Lambo at the expense of his workers. Of course there are wankers out there but all the medium sized business owners I know are doing the best they can to look after their workers.

I am unusual as a business owner though as I like and respect our unions and encourage workers to join. Works for Germany!

It isn't Labours "plan", agreed. But this wishy washy term "elite" means different things to different people, and usually just means people who earn more than they do!

There is a huge huge difference between higher rate tax payers and those threatening To leave the country due to higher tax (that difference running into the tens of millions of pounds)

Ok, I genuinely want to understand who these people are, please could you explain this with a real life example?

I know that many super rich people exploiting the uk housing market, buying tower buildings and then leaving them empty as it’s not worth finding tenants or buyers when it’s going to fetch so much interest over time anyway don’t live here anyway!

DH and I are both in the highest tax bracket. We work hard and have stressful jobs but lots of people who earn less also work hard and have stressful jobs. If you look in isolation at the amount of tax we pay each year it is eye watering but we both rather look at the amount we take home and recognise how unbelievably lucky we are. I find it hard to have sympathy for those who moan about the amount they pay in tax when they still take home hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.

Higher salaries don’t necessarily mean more responsibility.

I have worked at both ends of the spectrum, minimum wage jobs during university / just after graduating. And I worked up to a job with a great salary and lots of “responsibility”. As in, managing people and a section of a business which generated a lot of money. If I hadn’t been there to do my job or if I’d done it poorly, the company would have lost a lot of money and their reputation would have been impacted. I worked very long hours and there was a great deal of pressure.

But there are plenty of far lower paid roles that had much more legitimate responsibility than mine - nurses, caters, people responsible for the lives, health and well-being of others. Teachers, responsible for the education of large numbers of children. Firemen, risking their lives for other people.

There’s no way I worked harder than any of those people.

@Dontdisturbmenow you've completely misrepresented my post. Calling for a more equal society does not mean that everyone should earn the same. The OP was about taxation, not about equal earnings and my post followed on from that.

The point I was making was not that salaries should be the same but that reducing taxation for higher earners affects everyone negatively in the long run, including the higher earners, because of the general impacts on society. The incremental benefits in take home pay for someone on a six or seven figure salary having their taxation reduced are just not worth the long term harm if we can as a result not afford decent public services.

The average GP earns £90k a year, not bad at 3x the salary of the average worker. Plus they have very good pension arrangements. But the average CEO of a top 100 company in the UK gets 117x the average worker's pay. Plus lots of perks on top. I can't believe they need a tax cut. According to the teaching times, a secondary headteacher can expect to earn over £70k and more than £100k for an Academy school.
At what point is someone's remuneration for doing a tough job enough?

People I know in education and medicine are not complaining that they don't earn enough. That is not what makes them want to leave. It is the under-investment and the excessive workload. Cutting taxes and therefore services will only exacerbate this. Because government money comes from taxation.

Higher salaries don’t necessarily mean more responsibility

No, of course not.

I am not particularly highly paid compared to my peers. But if I fuck up, noone will die, but 23 people might lose their jobs. Which I think needs 'rewarding' with salary otherwise who would ever want to be an employer!

I feel good about my salary as the unions are totally happy with how we run our business.

Would it help if we considered a high base rate of income tax with a sliding scale down to 0% so that rather than paying more when you earn more, it's actually viewed as paying less when you earn less.

In most businesses any one person fucking up could lead to the closure of the business. One example , That's why the spammers and fraudsters target everyone not just the bosses, they are hoping to get access to an internal system to cause havoc.

I genuinely think that if you earn more you should contribute more.

They do!

5% of the population pay more than 50% of all income tax collected. How much tax should 5% of the population pay, all of it?

I don’t earn in the higher rate tax bracket but have no idea why people don’t understand that the more people earn the more tax they pay. Tax is a %, not a flat rate and in addition higher earners pay a higher percentage, why?Is it jealousy or stupidity or propaganda?

People will leave the country and less tax will be collected. People should focus on fair wages and tax avoidance, not taxing to death 5% if the population. What about all the cash in hand work that goes on where no tax is paid. I bought a car recently and the dealer wanted £1000 in cash for a better price, I wonder why!

Also lots of high earners employ people, take someone like Richard Branson, how much do you think his tax bill is? He will contribute hugely and also offers employment, if you tax these people too much they set up their business headquarters elsewhere, look at Amazon!

See telegraph extract below:

More than half of tax is now paid by just 5 per cent of people, The Telegraph can reveal, amid warnings that the uneven burden puts the economy at risk.

Analysis of Government figures published yesterday shows that for the first time the richest workers, estimated as those earning more than £75,300 a year, will pay just over 50 per cent of the income tax collected by the Treasury.

Experts have warned that the targeting of this “highly mobile” group is “dangerous” and could risk leaving public services underfunded. Last year Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s richest man moved to the tax haven of Monaco, although it is not known if this was driven by tax

Dh is a higher rate tax payer - he works hard, long hours BUT in a nice office with lovely people and he is well rewarded - we'd be happy to pay more tax especially if the money was going towards investing youth services - education/mental health/support services

Someone on a very low wage can’t pay the same proportion as someone on a high one.

I agree with progressive to to a point where people will not opt out. But also think fiscal drag exists for the rates.

In most businesses any one person fucking up could lead to the closure of the business

Not if it's a well run business!

I think EVERYONE should pay more tax.

It would help to stop the them and us culture which seems so specific to Britain