To think that being in a high tax bracket doesn't mean you work 'harder'

[dietcokeandgalaxyplease]

I'm so so sick of reading about people who welcome the Tory's tax reduction for high earners because of course they 'work hard' and why should they be penalised.
AIBU to think that even though you work HARD you don't always earn a lot? I genuinely think that if you earn more you should contribute more.
I'm a nurse married to a paramedic. Neither of us are paying the higher tax rate.... obviously we need to work harder???? 😡

Often (but not always), people on v high salaries work v v long hours (which is the reason for their high pay). I have relatives who were in investment banking and city law - they often ask you to drop your plans for the evening (working several hours past usual). I used to work in healthcare and had crappy rotas and long commute but probably did work less hours in hospital.

In general I think they have an unhealthy, inefficient way of working which shouldn’t be encouraged. They also know what they got into and have a choice to switch jobs. This is not the same for many people on min wage. I would say the health sector are underpaid for what they do, and I couldn’t handle the stress. I got a lucky break and switched jobs to IT with a better work-life balance and get paid the same.

Some people genuinely are unlucky enough not to be able to think about getting jobs where they they progress and earn more but I think some people could if they thought outside the box or were willing to move location.

I am a higher rate tax payer, as is my DH. Some days we work long hours and can find it very arduous. Other days we don't. I don't think we work harder than the people who made and served my lovely meal in a restaurant tonight and I don't think we are special. But the main difference is responsibility I think, DH and I both have jobs with a lot of responsibility and where significant risjs are managed. I think that is mainly why we get paid a lot, not because we are more industrious than people in lower paid jobs.
I don't want a tax cut. In fact I would happily pay more tax if I believed it was going to help people by providing better education, health care and so on. But I don't trust this government to do that. If I do get a reduction I think I will make a point of giving that amount to foodbanks or something so it hopefully goes directly to help people in need.
I come from a fairly humble working class background and was very much a "have not" whilst growing up. Yes, I am bright academically, yes I worked very hard to get where I am now. But none of it would have been possible without my publicly funded education and training. I am more than happy to put plenty back into the system that helped me now that I am a "have" but the way public money is being spent now horrifies me at times and I worry for my children and their peers.

I agree op. I am in higher tax bracket (just) - I juggle a lot but there is no way I work harder than a cleaner, Bus driver, nurse or someone in a supermarket.

I did work really hard getting a degree part time. I'm paid for my knowledge & brain labour now. I worked a lot harder when I earned a lot less in minimum wage jobs when I was younger.

the term "harder" is too simplistic.
are we talking physically harder, hot sweaty physical labor under difficult conditions (pick ax in a mine)
or mentally harder, forensic accountant.
or harder more people reliant on your accuracy (civil engineer drawing up a bridge).

**It's entirely fair that I should contribute a higher proportion of my salary because I can afford to contribute more.

This. I'm also a hrtp and would prefer to pay more if it means better services. And let's not forget that the higher rate is only charged on the bit above the threshold, not on the whole thing....

In answer to the pp nurses and paramedics aren’t poorly paid. There are other sectors that are poorly paid.

I think there is an issue re those just over the higher tax bracket. It isn’t a huge amount and for many doing overtime which a sector or company needs to thrive it simply isn’t worth doing ie you’d be doing it for nothing so many don’t.

I also think qualifications, experience, stress and responsibility are collectively paid for and earned in higher salaries. Others are more than welcome to gain qualifications and do the same but interestingly many don’t.

I wouldn’t for a start. I have chosen a work life balance.

the term "harder" is too simplistic
That! Harder means nothing, but unless you've been in a higher paid job and therefore in a position to compare, how can you know how much 'harder' it is?

My experience is that there is a big difference and that is terms of stress that comes with higher responsibility and higher expected mental demand. The stress of a high paid job is such that many people at that level give it up after a few years, preferring a lower paid job for lower stress.

Ultimately, a CEO is going to be paid more because there are fewer people able to do the job and fewer people willing to do it. Nurses and paramedics have hard jobs, but the reason they are paid less is because the extent of their decision making is what they are trained to do. Doctors have to make decision that is much more based on a number of variables. Hospital Chief Executives have to make decisions that impacts on hundreds of people.

Nurses and paramedics are working when they are on shift, CEO are always at work, even when off because the hospital doesn't stop operating and they hold the responsibility to make sure that it does at all time.

DH and I pull in over 100k between us, we could pay more tax, we’d not even notice.

For the record, we are both in highly technical jobs. We are paid for specialist knowledge and experience, not necessarily hard work, although we both work hard. The point is that our knowledge and experience enables the companies we work for to sell services that generate a lot of profit. That is why we are paid well, we are able to generate revenue,

You have two tax allowances for a start, will be keeping most CB and 100 is a long way away from 60. If you are both earning £50 k (so not on the higher tax band)you would notice your tax doubling when you jumped over particularly around the threshold. That and losing CB doesn’t make it work the extra stress and exhaustion for many.

I've thought this so many times. I agree that it's a Tory spin to get people to vote for their lower tax plans. I'm not a hrtp but dh is. No way does he work harder or more than me, and we both had to study to get where we are.

Totally disagree with the PP who said about looking at how much tax you pay if you earn more and being unhappy. I'm glad to pay the tax I do.

I think that a fairer distribution of wealth happens on a micro level as well as a macro level with the current system. DH is a hrtp, I am not. If he does more work we don't really see much more money, whereas if I do we keep more of it. This means that it makes more sense for me to work more (love my job), him not to seek more work (not as happy in his job), I can then also contribute more to my pension which took a battering during the preschool years when I worked very part time, we can have a more equitable basis in our marriage (although all finances are shared), and more equity in household responsibilities. DH totally agrees, other than on the final point, working on it though.

They personal allowance isn’t lost though?

My dh is in a similar position just over the threshold. I am work in an underpaid full time job on a minimum wage. I work less hours with zero stress. Love my job and going to work. I can see the difference between dh and I. I can also see why he refuses to do overtime when needed. We already have to pay back our CB( even though those families earning more collectively get to keep it) being taxed 40% on a a 6 day week of stress simply isn’t worth it and his company loses out.

Sorting the mess that is tax just over the tax threshold is literally the only thing I’ve agreed with Boris about. He helped cause it though by screwing up CB which is ludicrously unfair.

@dietcokeandgalaxyplease I yawned because this discussion has been done to death many times before, and it one of the ways certain people particularly certain politicians like to play divide and conquer with the general population.

@CendrillonSings I would imagine if they did “do that exercise” the first thing that would smack them between the eyes was how much easier life would be if they actually had that tax free income.

Sorry - post-tax income that should be

@V1daw1inter Gideon Osbourne is the one who caused the mess. He thought austerity was a good idea because he's never had to rely on the benefits and services that he delibrately cut that normal people do.

Where I work, it seems the higher up you are, the less work you do
My DP and I will never get close to the higher bracket but we work hard and always have.

I read the other day that our redistributative tax system has created the narrowest gap between rich and poor ever and I can attest that this is true.

When the DH and I were both earning (him a lot, me not so much as I taught) we were on a high joint income and paid excruciating amounts of tax. I had no problem with that as I think you have to pay your dues to the party gods. However, when I had to take early retirement as I was burnt out ( losing a quarter of my pension in the process) and he was made redundant our income plummeted.

We have gone from the equivalent of the top decile to the bottom decile and, actually, we have managed to survive because of the way the tax system benefits the poorly paid. I would never ever have claimed benefits but, had our assets not disqualified us and we had claimed, we would have pretty much the spending power we had before.

It is the same with state pension. People complain that we have the worst pensions of almost any developed country but it is because they are not contributory but redistributive. The better paid do not get the pensions they could buy privately with better salaries as these are subsidising the poorer off who contribute less. Again, I don’t have much problem with this. What I do have a problem with is that those who are benefited by our wonderful and generous society then complain and say they are not getting even more.

I’m a higher rate tax payer. I work really hard but so does my team members on £20k. The difference is that I have developed a skill set that’s unusual and valued more abdxim willing to take the stress and the kickings it brings. Not that I actually work harder. And that’s only in relation to my team, I don’t think my job is as stressful as a nurse say,

However I DO gridge the amount I pay purely because I think it’s ridiculous people are having to use food banks and our health and education services are on their knees I’d happily pay a little more if it was spent on say making sure everyone could afford to eat.

And don’t start me on the bloody extra penny I pay cos I’m in Scotland...

Esorry, both times should read redistributive!

No Boris claimed families over £40k used child benefits “ to stock wine cellars and go in ski big holidays”. I remember him saying it and the smirk to appeal to voters. Not a bloody clue about real life. He then let families on £80 keep it which is ridiculous.

He screwed up child benefit and families just over the threshold. He is now trying to buy them back. He is right but he caused it and it’s another example of how he glides over the truth,doesn’t think things through properly, has no idea what real life is like and has really shitty policies.

It will mean however that your role possibly:

A:requires greater investment in terms of training/ education/ professional qualifications

B: carries greater responsibility

C:requires hard to aquire skills or talent

D: provides a major financial benefit to the company

Than someone who has to slog it out on nmw, unfortunately it is not likely to be based on the value you add to society eg care workers.

I'm a single mum and higher rate tax payer. I pay more tax than a married couple would pay together even though we earn the same amount eg: married couple 2 x £35k vs 1 person earning £70k.

I also don't qualify for child benefit.