I don't know if I can move on from this

[purpletod]

DP and I had a huge argument last night. No shouting, as we have a DD 18 months, but harsh talking.

We're both very tired, both work FT with a young toddler. It's tough. We haven't been very close lately and the cracks are starting to show.

We've been ratty with each other for a while now and last night it came to a head after a petty argument over DP leaving the kitchen an absolute state after cooking.

The argument escalated and I don't know how/why, but the discussion of separation came up and how we'd share custody of DD. I said, of course it'd be 50/50 and he said 'no chance, she'd be with me all the time... I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are. She'd be better off with me so that she doesn't turn out like you.'

I had a very rough childhood. My DM has severe mental health issues and I do, myself, suffer with anxiety. My anxiety extends to being a worry wort and admittedly some kind of inferiority complex. This doesn't effect my parenting in any way.

Then I start to cry (ffs ) and he says 'oh look, it's (DM name) you're just like her, aren't you?!'

The things that I'd confined in him about thrown in my face. Apparently I only ever get upset with him due to my 'own insecurity'.

He later apologises, cries (I've only seen him cry once in 6 years) and says he can't believe that he's been so horrible.

I don't know what to do now. Can I just forgive and forget? I'm still raw and I feel as though the trust is gone.

You were both tired and out of control. People get hurt and angry and say things in arguments under these circumstances that they don't mean.
Give it time

Wow.

I would find that hard to forget.

Don't really know what to advise there.

What a bastard. The thing is, people argue and say mean things, but that is beyond the scope of normal arguing isn't it. He's using your own past to belittle you, and you won't ever be able to forget that he said those things to you.

He's ratcheted up the insult level.

He probably only said it to be defensive, but it's properly rude.

He needs to apologise. Don't make a drama out of a crisis, but make it clear you don't put up with that sort of behaviour.

I think that is particularly nasty thing to say and I think it shows you what he's capable of. He is threatening you not to leave him or he'll take the kids off you.

It's good that he apologised but I would be wary of possible crocodile tears. Is he truly sad he said what he said, or that you now know how he thinks?

Pretty manipulative and cruel thing to say imo.
I'm not sure I could forgive or forget that.

I would find it very hard to move on from that.
That was really vindictive of him, using what he knows would hurt the most to get to you. Sorry OP

His crying means nothing as far as I am concerned. He shouldn't have said those things, even in the heat of the moment. I don't blame you for struggling to move on from it - it would certainly take some time and plenty of reassurance that he has your back!! x

That was pretty bloody vicious of him, wasn't it?

I don't know. He does seem genuinely sorry.

Firstly I've never heard of any parent with anxiety or depression etc being denied custody just for this (unless it's so severe that they can't get out of bed etc) so I'd maybe research this and show him what you've found, just in case some part of him is worried that the anxiety etc will rub off on your daughter.

Are you taking action to address your mental health issues? Is this impacting on your relationship? Does he feel overwhelmed with trying to support you while getting nothing back?

It is tough having a young child. And it was a horrible thing for him to say, I guess only you can know if this is a one off as a result of things building up or if he is actually a nasty person that says things designed to hurt.

If it's the former and you want to work things out then I'd look at what you can do to make your life easier. Ask for a babysitter (someone at nursery?) and go out for a meal together. Get a cleaner. Stop doing as much ironing and housework. See if you can change your hours at work.

And things will get bigger with your child, when they are a bit older you can pick them up and they are less clingy and can play by themselves for a bit while you get dinner and they wont be throwing tantrums about things like putting their pyjamas on and evenings will be a lot less hectic

No you don't forgive and forget.
He has told you the truth about who and what he is. LISTEN to him.
Start making an escape plan and put everything in place so when he next behaves like that you can leave
Do not go with 50/50 access as you can not co parent with someone like that
Please protect yourself and your DC from him and his abuse

That’s awful, using your insecurities against you as a weapon and threatening you with custody issues if you dare to split. What an actual fucker.

I’m so sorry your H has been so nasty. I’d find that very hard to forgive.

In arguments we all say some shitty things, but certainly from my POV it’s only true things that I don’t dare say in real life, all the stuff I bottle up day to day. I wouldn’t ever say something I didn’t mean just to score points.

DP is the opposite and insists he doesn’t mean what he says when he’s angry, but I don’t understand how someone would just make shit up that they didn’t really mean, in the heat of an argument, so as far as I’m concerned, if he’s said it, he meant it.

It looks like your H’s lack of respect for you - and your mum - has shown through here.

I’d be telling him to do some long hard thinking here about what he’s said and why he said it. And either he means it, in which case he’s an arsehole and needs to find some empathy, or he doesn’t, in which case he’s a nasty shit and needs some self control. Either way, if this is the first time this has happened I might be prepared to move past it if he showed true remorse and never did it again. If he’s shown even a hint of this type of thing before and this is an escalation, I’d get him out.

Tell him you won’t be emotionally black-mailed over your DD and that you know for a fact that he’d never get full parental responsibility over you, and that if he ever even suggests such a thing again, he’ll be out on his ear and he can try and prove it.

His tears mean nothing without a huge shift in attitude and a vow to never behave like that again. Tell him at the first sign of such disrespect again, you’ll split up with him - and mean it. Nasty man.

Can't stop thinking about this.

That is so detailed and calculated.

I find it hard to write what he said as simply hitting back in an argument. Ok things said in anger, but the problem is that it shows his line of thinking. Someone who was genuinely sorry about the way you'd been brought up and what you'd had to go through wouldn't think the way you'd have to for those comments to come out.

Imagine you were arguing with someone and they said 'And I hate your stupid haircut too, it makes your face look really long and ugly' - and then cried, and apologised, and said that they didn't think that at all and that they liked your hair. You would have a hard time believing them, wouldn't you - because of the detail of the insult, it would be so obvious that actually yes, they must have looked at you and thought that your haircut made your face look long. Nor the most brilliant example in the world but hopefully you know what I'm getting at.

And the threatening to turn your child against you and take her away? Yes, the trust would be extremely damaged by that. Again, the detail is chilling.

I'll be surprised if OP returns and says that he always been kind, loving, supportive, never any hint of a nastier side to him. I won't be surprised if she says, well yes sometimes he can be judgemental, he does sometimes undermine me with our child, he does think it's his way or the highway, he is sometimes cruel in his humour, I often feel he doesn't really respect me...

Argument or not that was absolutely unacceptable. I would that very hard to move on from. Despite the fact he was sorry I would imagine that will sit with you now. My ex did something similar and it really frightened me and he knew this hence why he said it. I think you may need to revisit this when things calm down and make it very clear to your DP the impact his words have had. I imagine it may make you question your whole r'ship because he has used aspects of your life which make you very vulnerable. He needs to work hard to repair that trust which has taken a battering...if indeed it CAN be repaired. You poor thing.

I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are.

OP, no. The more I think of it and re-read this, I am thinking I am with the pps who are most vehement here.

Could you take a few days away? Obviously - with your DD. If your reply is 'he'd never allow it' - then my simple answer would be then you definitely need to leave him.

I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are.

oh look, it's (DM name) you're just like her, aren't you?!'

This is what he's thinking. I'd find it really hard to trust a person like that. He does not sound like a kind man. The tears afterwards I wouldn't trust either, but then I'm cynical. I'd advise being careful.

Oh god, that's so cruel. I mean I'm glad he apologised but I can see why you're feeling like you can't move passed that. We all say things we regret/don't mean in the heat of the moment but that really goes well beyond

I agree with others....he really took those insults to another level, argument or not.

It's that old Mumsnet line

"He has shown you who he is. Believe him."

When my husband had an EA I found the emails and some of the things he wrote about me I still think about today. I wish I had left him back then.

That's awful. He doesn't sound like he even likes you at all. That's more than just tired snapping.
Who took the maternity / parental leave with your dd? I don't actually think it's good for small children to be 50/50 in 2 different homes.

OP wow, that is hugely cruel.

To put it into context, DH and I went through a really bad time when DD1 was small. Once, being a total dickhead - this is really out of character for him - he took his hands off the steering wheel whilst driving on a dual carriageway with her in the car.

I absolutely tore into him later and said something along the lines of 'If you ever do that again I'll make sure you don't drive her anywhere till she is 18'.

It is probably the nastiest thing I have ever said to him.

That's 'normal' arguing/ ultimatums. A logical response to a specific situation, no big threats to take away the child, etc.

What he said, isn't.

Nobody who loves you would ever utter these words to you....

I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are.

That is not heat of the moment stuff. That remark is based on observation and consideration of your most vulnerable characteristics - that incidentally he was aware of before procreating with you - and giving thought to how to bring them to the fore and break you.

No, I could not move past that and no way on this earth would I hand a child over for half of their upbringing to someone capable of such cunning and malice in this context.

He is a disgrace and I would say his tears are crocodile tears. Like most abusive pricks tears are.

Sorry thst you have been treated this way but as they say “when someone shows you who they are believe them”.

That would be the end for me. There’s no way I could stay with someone who was so cruel, regardless of how sorry they professed to be.

The talk of a separation was new to you

It wasn't to him

The detail he went into about how he would use your DD against you shows that he's thought about it before and he's thought about it at length

Furthermore he has calculated how and in what he will use your mental health history to his advantage as his legal argument for being the resident parent.

This man does not care about you.

Play happy families and keep him thinking he's got you under his thumb for as long as is necessary to get good legal representation and get the fuck out

that's really not nice OP but people say things when they are hurt &, although i'm not defending him, he was probably in quite a hurt position discussing separation & custody of your DD - you say you can't remember how that came up but is it likely that it may have been brought up by you in the heat of tiredness & anger?

If so, did you mean it?

OP, both of you working FT and a toddler can definitely put huge new pressure on a relationship but honestly a great big😲at what's been said to you.

It's truly vicious.

Sometimes in marriages you can have a moment when you definitely do not show your best self. We are all very human.

But Christ, his words would change me forever. Those are not off the cuff, heat of the moment remarks. Men generally aren't that clever verbally.

It sounds to me like he has given this some thought.

Wishing you strength 💐

Now that he has said it, you can guarantee it will be trotted out every time.

My DP said some awful things to me and I retaliated in kind. we were vile to each other but promised we would never stoop so low again. I have managed to stick to it but now every time we row he throws the same old things in my face. They have lost all meaning now but I have lost all respect for him and am in the process of getting ready to end things.