I don't know if I can move on from this

[purpletod]

DP and I had a huge argument last night. No shouting, as we have a DD 18 months, but harsh talking.

We're both very tired, both work FT with a young toddler. It's tough. We haven't been very close lately and the cracks are starting to show.

We've been ratty with each other for a while now and last night it came to a head after a petty argument over DP leaving the kitchen an absolute state after cooking.

The argument escalated and I don't know how/why, but the discussion of separation came up and how we'd share custody of DD. I said, of course it'd be 50/50 and he said 'no chance, she'd be with me all the time... I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are. She'd be better off with me so that she doesn't turn out like you.'

I had a very rough childhood. My DM has severe mental health issues and I do, myself, suffer with anxiety. My anxiety extends to being a worry wort and admittedly some kind of inferiority complex. This doesn't effect my parenting in any way.

Then I start to cry (ffs ) and he says 'oh look, it's (DM name) you're just like her, aren't you?!'

The things that I'd confined in him about thrown in my face. Apparently I only ever get upset with him due to my 'own insecurity'.

He later apologises, cries (I've only seen him cry once in 6 years) and says he can't believe that he's been so horrible.

I don't know what to do now. Can I just forgive and forget? I'm still raw and I feel as though the trust is gone.

Oh OP, this is awful for you. He has said something specifically to hurt you and because he knows it will be effective and most likely shut down the debate that had already gone too far (discussing separation).

Firstly, it's almost certain that he doesn't mean it or think that it's true in any way. He just wanted in that moment to hurt you and said this out of anger. That doesn't make it better as his intent is to hurt rather than give out some home truths but hopefully it will help you knowing this.

Things only get to this point if there has been brewing discontent, I guess it's obvious to us why this might have been brewing as it sounds like you have busy and stressed lives, anyone with an 18 month old would no doubt empathise. I guess like a lot of these things there needs to be clear and regular communication about any issues in the relationship and living situation and try to ensure these things are diffused before they start.

I don't know your best next steps but a few days of being kind to each other would be a great first step I'm sure.

I would carry on as normal but in the mean time a would make an escape plan.
Go to solicitors and ask for advise on separation and divorce.
Good luck and you will be better off with out him, he's a man that meant to support you but he is actually throwing everything to your face.

It is a very chilling thing to say and I’m glad it’s given you pause for thought. Yes it’s possible it was said in anger and not meant. The (very perverse) silver lining here is that it’s ruptured your feelings for him to give you the clarity to look at things objectively. You may find that something clicks you start to see other things he does and says in a different light and realise he’s not as supportive as he seems. Or conversely you may observe that he is genuinely supportive of your anxiety through his actions and other words and this was him unreasonably and uncharacteristically lashing out.

Either way as separation can been mentioned, good to quietly be getting an exit plan together so you’re prepared.

Ask yourself this OP, could you ever trust him again with things you felt vulnerable about? Would you trust he is listening to your worries in empathy and out of care and concern or would he be listening to you be vulnerable as an information gathering exercise to have things to use against you in the future?

Maybe disengage for a bit and think about the true character of this man and if you could feel vulnerable with him and trust him fully going forward.

You've crossed the rubicon by mentioning the Separation word. You've threatened each other. Did you mean it? No, probably not, but you've worked out how to hurt each other. You need to talk it through before making a rash decision either way.

Very wise words there. You threatened him with separation OP. Over leaving a mess. That’s pretty powerful. Then told him you’d control what access would be. That’s very strong threats too. He retaliated even worse. But you both bought yourselves very quickly to a dark and damaging place.

Of course he should apologize. But truthfully I think you should too. And also yourselves why you both got to such a nasty place so quickly. Is this a warning sign that you both are on the edge as stress around you builds? Counseling might be good.

Tell him that what he said has shocked you, and that you both need to go to relate if this relationship is to survive.

He needs to realise just how bad this was. And you need to be really strong and absolutely firm when you say this. Don't accept anything other than an agreement to get relationship counselling

You were both tired and out of control. People get hurt and angry and say things in arguments under these circumstances that they don't mean. Give it time absolute rubbish.

I would find that very hard to come back from.He had that thought already in his mind and thinks that of you. That was well thought out. It wasnt something that slipped out and he immediately was horrified. He went on further to compare you to your dm and mock you. Nah, that was true nastiness. he let you know what he was capable of.

Honestly, I've been that mean. I didn't mean it but I totally accept responsibility for what it says about me and the state I was in at the time. There was some element of truth about the observations I made about DH's patterns, and he was also at fault, but clearly none of that is an excuse for being so cruel.

I know posters are saying that is a line crossed, but that does not need to mean an ending. The person who said those things was the worst version of me, but there are many other versions too.

We have moved on from it, mostly. We've worked really hard to do that. I've started on meds, done a year or more of psychotherapy, worked on myself a lot. He's changed too and realised how deeply he was affecting me. We're much more gentle with each other now, and I have things in my life to remind me who I choose to be (e.g. my username!).

Please don't move straight to thinking what you saw yesterday is everything he is about. Yes it's serious, but the depth of his regret can lead to a positive change - and must do. For me, it was indication I needed help and I was so, so ashamed.

What was the argument about that it got to the point of talking about separation and residency etc. Because clearly it wasn’t just a run-of-the mill row, you actually discussed separating, in which case emotions will definitely have run high on both sides.

In isolation the comment was unacceptable but in the context of a row and of your lives together is it possible that issues wrt your MH have put strain on the relationship?

From the other side there are posters on this very thread who have suggested reasons for him to not be allowed access to the child, that essentially amounts to the same thing but comes from the other side and hasn’t been shouted by you in anger but the principle is the same.

Also, what is the issue with your mum? Are relations strained there? Does she cause issues in the marriage? For him to compare you shows that there is some corallation there and that possibly needs to be thought through.

FWIW I don’t think that you are necessarily to blame here, but neither do I think that a one off statement said in the heat of a horrible row where separation has been discussed and where he has later shown remorse is an instant LTB moment.

But you need to both talk about the issues and the stresses in your relationship to see if you can work through this or whether last night’s argument was in fact a defining moment in your marriage, either with or without the comment about your MH.

People get hurt and angry and say things in arguments under these circumstances that they don't mean. No, sorry this is the times when people say EXACTLY what they mean but are usually too controlled to say in normal life. This is what he REALLY thinks. I don't know if I could forgive someone for that, but only you know whether you can forget the hurtful words and threats he made.

I actually think that's quite scary saying he'd make you crack and that he'd take your DD away. I doubt being in a relationship with him is helping your mental health in general tbh if this is what he's like. Maybe you don't believe you deserve better?

I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are. She'd be better off with me so that she doesn't turn out like you.'

Something like this wouldn't even leave my mouth or pop into my brain, even sleep deprived and angry. That is an absolutely shocking thing to say to your partner and I wouldn't want to be with someone who felt that way about me.

This is very low, OP, malicious and a point of no return. Would be a deal breaker for me. One thing is to shout, swear and say some 'regular' nasties during an argument, but what he did is very cold and mean, he's showing what he really thinks of you and what kind of man he is. Not a good man. You cannot trust this man.

You should leave him for your own good. As for 'I'll take away your kids from you, you crazy bitch' - that's quite classic. Many asswipes use this, trying to bully an already anxious woman into staying with them. Don't fall for this. He WON'T take away your kids only because your anxiety and depression/MH issues. Unless you so severely ill it's affecting your ability to take care of your kids and yourself - no court would separate your kids from you. I've been there, my ex tried to do the same. I also had depression and anxiety. The judge didn't take his actions and claims too kindly, believe me.

That's actually quite a scary thing he said OP. I'm not sure I could forget it and move on. Do you have anyone irl you can trust and speak to about this situation?

But the OP had threatened him with separation first, because he hadn’t cleared up?!

If a woman came on here and said her DH had got angry with her for cooking for him, but not clearing up properly and then said that he’d walk out of the relationship I think mumsnet would be calling abuse!

Yikes that’s beyond defensive anger/insult level for an argument in my opinion.

My DH once went towards something similar, but not in such harsh terms, but he said should we ever split he’d take full custody of our twin toddlers as he’s the sole earner - I just laughed it off and said how would you continue to be sole earner and be their full time carer? But when we’d calmed down a bit and granted my laughing at him wasn’t the right thing to do either, he apologised profusely but made sure to detail exactly what he was apologising for and why he knew what he had said in the heat of the moment was unfair, cruel and wrong. Was your DH specific about what he was apologising for? Did he reassure you that, whilst he said something beyond the pale he recognises it - did he make sure to say that the onus of his words is completely on him and nothing you have said or done?

If he was direct and honest and apologised in a genuinely contrite manner I might be inclined to say “fair enough this time I’ll take your apologies, but know that if you EVER cross that line again I will not be able to forgive you.”

If he was vague in his apology (as in it was a blanket “I’m sorry for being a twat”) push him to acknowledge exactly what he is apologising for (weaponising your childhood and your fears against you to verbally beat you down) and why he KNOWS what he said is wrong.

That’s how I approached it when my DH overstepped the line - similar to you, toddlers, sleep deprivation and a slew of other causes making us both extremely stressed, but it doesn’t give anybody the right to do this.

What good is sitting down and talking through it? His nasty intentions came out. what could he possibly say to undo that? You would be an utter fool to forgive and let this go.

Fuckinghell 😲
That's him warning you what's in store if you cross him, he let his mask slip and you can see him for who he really is.
I don't think I could trust him after that, I'd be very strategic and make sure I always stayed one step ahead of him

Yet if both sides really meant what they said...
OP really does want to separate
OP will call the shots over access
Her DP will retaliate.

I don’t think anyone comes out of this well if everything nasty they both said is now set in stone.

He has shown me that what he really feels for you is contempt, he has told you that if you cross him he will go all out to totally destroy you and use everything he can against you.
He doesn't see this as a partnership of equals he is the superior and you work for him ....that's how it is in his mind
I might pretend to come back from that but underneath I would be making sure that I was protected and I would play my own cards very very close to my chest
he is not in your corner he is your adversary.

Agree with others, it's the threats about residency and your MH that really reveal how nasty he is.

Threatening to take the kids is the classic line of abusive men when separation is mentioned, especially when they know that will destroy you. Painting you as insane and an unfit mother also tends to feature.

This threat isn't genuine, it's about controlling and frightening you. Your anxiety and MH background gives him a way to make you feel weak and inferior. I would not be trusting this man and like you OP I don't think I could move past this.

I can relate to your issues. I'm from a deeply dysfunctional family and I've always had low self-esteem and been an extreme worrier - in the past I just saw myself as a worry wart, these days it's officially "anxiety", but either way it's a result of my childhood. I have very supportive GP and I'm on medication that helps hugely and allows me to function within normal range. Is that something you could consider?

I've been separated from my ex a few years and I can tell you I'm also a lot more relaxed without having to live with him, his mess, selfishness and superiority complex. Tendencies to anxiety do NOT make you a bad parent.

Mocking you while are you upset =kicking you while you're down
this shows a predatory mindset and then he strategically starts crying afterwards to try and make you feel guilty.
He's just a gaslighting c**t isn't he

Crying is a tactic to shock you and it also serves to prevent the calm rational discussion that ought to happen after an outburst like this
You now probably feel really guilty for 'making him cry' so it becomes a DARVO manoeuvre ...he knows he's in the wrong and he's tried to spin things around to make you feel as if you're in the wrong

I'd go and see a solicitor and get advise about a divorce and leaving him. Also he will not be able to take your child off you because you are anxious, so please don't worry about that.
Hes an abuser and will start ramping it up I bet.
You need to leave him OP.

He's not sorry. He just doesn't want you to act on what he revealed about himself.