I don't know if I can move on from this

[purpletod]

DP and I had a huge argument last night. No shouting, as we have a DD 18 months, but harsh talking.

We're both very tired, both work FT with a young toddler. It's tough. We haven't been very close lately and the cracks are starting to show.

We've been ratty with each other for a while now and last night it came to a head after a petty argument over DP leaving the kitchen an absolute state after cooking.

The argument escalated and I don't know how/why, but the discussion of separation came up and how we'd share custody of DD. I said, of course it'd be 50/50 and he said 'no chance, she'd be with me all the time... I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are. She'd be better off with me so that she doesn't turn out like you.'

I had a very rough childhood. My DM has severe mental health issues and I do, myself, suffer with anxiety. My anxiety extends to being a worry wort and admittedly some kind of inferiority complex. This doesn't effect my parenting in any way.

Then I start to cry (ffs ) and he says 'oh look, it's (DM name) you're just like her, aren't you?!'

The things that I'd confined in him about thrown in my face. Apparently I only ever get upset with him due to my 'own insecurity'.

He later apologises, cries (I've only seen him cry once in 6 years) and says he can't believe that he's been so horrible.

I don't know what to do now. Can I just forgive and forget? I'm still raw and I feel as though the trust is gone.

@ethelfleda not an overreaction at all. My daughters biological father told me something similar, and he meant it.
I spent almost six years with him making my life absolute hell. He made every accusation he could. I spent six years with social services regularly at my door because of his accusations. I repeatedly had to call the police because of his harassment. I'm trying to give advice go OP who may well see herself in the same situation in the near future. I hope not, but why should she trust that he is going to act in a reasonable manner considering his threats?
It's really not normal to say that youd make someone's life so uncomfortable they would have a break down so that they lose their child.

It isn't an overreaction because it does happen to people.
I'm not telling the OP to leave her marriage, I'm telling her to cover all of her bases.
She wants proof that hes made these threats so when social services knock on her door she can say- I know where this comes from, I have proof he said he would do this, and here and now I can show you that my Dr is treating me for anxiety, but has no concerns about my parenting.

The rest is fairly standard when getting ducks in order is it not?

He was very savage and I think PP are spot on.

He has drawn his line in the sand now and should you wish to separate at any stage, he has told you how he is going to play it.

It's a veiled threat - dont try to leave me or I'm going to go for custody of the child (which he wouldn't get by the way!!)

Really?

Absolutely, depending on circumstances.

Given that we don’t know exactly how the argument developed (that resulted in discussion about separation) and how typical this behaviour is, then I’d advocate counselling rather than immediate LTB.

LTB can be thrown out very easily on here. Often it’s justified. Here I’m not so sure.

@stophuggingme

She saw a solicitor during the split who said his behaviour would only confirm he was using coercive control/threats to manipulate. She went back (I think partly because they have a DC) but he has changed my family's option of him forever and we are very cautious about what we say around him (trust has gone).

*opinion

Nowhere does it say that she brought up separation first.

Of course she brought up separation first. He didn't bring it up, suggest 50/50 split with children and then start arguing with himself about it. She brought it up and he escalated it.

That so many people on here would throw away a marriage when there is an 18 month old child in the picture is a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

Every time there is bad behaviour in a relationship is an opportunity to strengthen the bond, but so many here suggest being a martyr and ending things. I'm absolutely certain that a good amount of it is projection from unhappy people, people in unhappy relationships, people unhappy not to be in a relationship etc.

There is no excuse for how her husband escalated this argument but for crying out loud if you think this behaviour means a child growing up with separate parents then I just can not get behind that. It may well end up there, agreed but come on people, marriages need working at. I honestly find people attitudes on this thread just as inappropriate than the husbands behaviour.

OP in your post you say you both have ft jobs. You also have a 18mo that would put a strain on anyone's relationship. We all have the power to forgive. I know I am guilty of saying things that I truly do not mean to really hurt. I do think you are both frustrated and you both need to do something together then see how you feel.

I think it's extremely likely that this man has been steadily ramping up the abuse, either since pregnancy or since the baby arrived. I bet OP's been feeling like shit and not really knowing why, because a lot of the putdowns and controlling behaviour will have come with a large dose of 'It's only because I care about you that I do this.'
This is a man who has to win all the time. He doesn't want custody of DC, of course he doesn't: he wants you so scared of losing DC that you will obey and submit and never challenge him about anything.

Have a look at some counselling for yourself - it never works when the man is abusive, and this one definitely is. Sadly, he would have picked you as a partner right in the beginning because you suffer from anxiety and are therefore easy to push around.

Laurie one of few voices of common sense here!

Seems like emotional abuse to me

Wow.

He's just shown you who he is when things aren't going his way. How awful.

I don't think I could trust someone who said those things to me.

The part you said where he talked about “making things incredibly uncomfortable for you” until you “cracked” is a bit chilling to be honest. I’m not sure I could move on from that either. Very vindictive sounding person.

I think you do need to consider how the separation conversation came up. DH and I have had some blazing rows in the past and I can assure you, we were both thinking the big D word during these conversations, but neither of us ever SAY it because that immediately moves the argument into a whole different level.

So if he brought i tup first, then compounded it with some cruel and vicious comments that suggest he's given this some real, and rather disturbing, thought, then I'm not sure you can come back.

If you brought it up first and he conceivably saw this as you threatening him, then retaliated with some cruel comments, it's still bad, but I'd argue that it's far more likely to be heat of the moment. However, even in this situation, you both need to take a long hard look at how you are behaving and thinking about each other because otherwise there will be more such incidents and at some point you simply won't be able to come back from it.

Just wanted to say that I read a thread on here once linked to an article describing how, when someone says something like: "someone has fallen out with me but I don't know why," or "she said some awful things but I don't remember what" they are lying. They absolutely DO know why, and they DO remember what, they just don't want to admit their part in the situation.

When I read this in the OP I don't know how/why, but the discussion of separation came up and how we'd share custody of DD I immediately interpreted it as it was the OP who brought up separation.

I mean - she says word for word all the hurtful things her DP said about her but "can't remember" who brought up the subject of separation??

I think that's why other posters are saying she brought it up, because it's pretty obvious.

Slow down and see how you feel. Not a straightforward LTB yet. There is probably some truth in how he said it but people don't always do nasty things they say when mad in anger.

Completely normal to feel sad in this situation and question it. But you both were angry and we dont know how much each one's limit is, so take it slow. See if you can have a chat in a few days.

I do think things said in the heat of the moment can get cloudy, doesn't matter who brought separation up though what OP's H said was unforgivable.
I would get therapy for myself, all the while working out how I can get out/see a solicitor etc. Build up a diary of evidence, starting off with what he said in this argument.

Tired snapping would be a quick 'for fucks sake' in my house. Not a description of how I would work to destroy my partner, a nasty comment about his mental health and a nasty comparison with someone negative from his history.
I would be careful OP. That was a bloody vile think for him to say

If you brought it up first and he conceivably saw this as you threatening him, then retaliated with some cruel comments, it's still bad, but I'd argue that it's far more likely to be heat of the moment.

I think that this is really important.

My Ex repeatedly told me he’d divorce as a way of abusing me emotionally. Don’t underestimate the awful impact if you were the one instigating this threat - it’s incredibly scary and is saying to your partner

If you say or do anything I don’t like I will end it. However minor.

Think it over OP! Only you know what the score really is.

Jesus , that's pretty awful behaviour. Tired, hungry and ratty doesn't account for that !
Difficult for you to make a decision about the future of your whole marriage based on a flare up out of nowhere argument...they usually blow over as quickly as they came...HOWEVER... what he said I feel is deeply serious. I dont know if I could ever feel the same .What a breach of trust, love and confidentiality.

If i judged my partner, or anyone, on the arguments we've had then i wouldn't have a partner, or any friends probably

People say some fucking stupid shit when they're hyped

So many apologists on here. What he said was fucking awful.

Words matter.

What he said was fucking awful. Words matter

No one is denying that.

They’re saying it’s not necessarily a LTB situation, especially given that the OP has been vague about the immediate context of the remark.

I think a lot of people have been triggered here and are honing in on her DPs comment in total isolation. I think many posters need to slow the hell down! This is a marriage and a kid here - telling the OP he’s obviously a cruel evil abuser and she needs to leave immediately is really rash and potentially damaging.

Let’s look at the facts as we have them - if the OP is still about she can elaborate:

Both OP and DP are bound to be stressed and tired, in the baby stage. Huge adjustment. We all know that.

How the argument started:
DP cooked dinner. He didn’t clear up properly.
This isn’t the crime of the century. He’s obviously trying on some level.
She says:
last night it came to a head after a petty argument over DP leaving the kitchen an absolute state after cooking.

OP then got mad with DP about not clearing up. She started this argument.

Then...
The argument escalated and I don't know how/why, but the discussion of separation came up and how we'd share custody of DD. I said, of course it'd be 50/50

So who escalated the argument? Who said they’d separate? The OP had to have said this as she was the one to dictate custody. She said of course - there was no discussion. This was a threat. This was not a discussion - this was by her admission, a heated argument.

So she threatened separation and told him exactly what custody would be - Which are both threats and both controlling statements - because he didn’t clear up after cooking. I think that this is so important for the OP to clearly see.

Then her DP said
no chance, she'd be with me all the time... I'd make things incredibly uncomfortable for you, until the point where you'd crack and they'd see you for the anxious mess that you are. She'd be better off with me so that she doesn't turn out like you.
I’m not defending that. Never have in any post and in fact I’ve said it’s horrible and nasty and he should apologize. However, and there is however, it was in retaliation to some pretty devastating threats that have been played down by the OP.

What I and other posters have urged is to be careful. If there are other red flags elsewhere repeatedly in her relationship then yes, indeed that is time to leave. Only OP will know this.

@Longlongsummer - You clearly omitted the fact OP said of course the custody would be 50/50- which is pretty generous. She didnt say 'of course I will get full custody'.
If the DP left the kicthen in a right mess, and both work FT, it's normal the other party may not be happy rbout it. Do you like doing FT work and doing all of the housework? I certainly do not and would expect my partner to contribute to cleaning up instead of being a selfish git.
Funny how you pick her post apart but fail to see such clear message.
Also, not sure how you concluded OP was the one hinting at separation, none of what she said, and definitely not what you fished out, is conclusive of that.

Why are you so determined to DARVO and bash the OP, a complete stranger to you, who has had something clearly very horrible said to her ?