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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Can I change a naturally selfish child?

331 replies

Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:36

I have two daughters, 8 and 9. My eldest has always been quite insular, she doesn’t have naturally great social skills. She is learning through her mistakes and is showing signs of occasional empathy, but it’s clearly an effort. I have seen her walk right past a hurt, crying child without even seeing them. It’s like it doesn’t register.

My youngest is naturally empathetic. Her nursery reports from pre-talking used say ‘X gave her toy to (spoilt) crying kid who wanted it off her’ - I paraphrase. Natural empathy, naturally kind and thoughtful, very popular. But the polarity is extreme between the girls.

We have 2 family ipads the kids are allowed to use for an hour before we get up. This is a real treat as they don’t have them during the week. This morning one hadn’t been charged. So my eldest sat with the one that worked and my youngest tried to charge the other one while she used it but with little success. Youngest ‘didn’t say’ she wanted to share the working iPad so eldest used it exclusively. Youngest did something else. When we got up we obviously noticed.

Had a conversation with each separately. To eldest : why did you not think to share the iPad that worked? Can you see that your behaviour is like your friend Y who you complain about? How does Y make you feel when she’s thoughtless/says unkind things/won’t share? Why do you do that to your sister? Explained she has to try more as it doesn’t come naturally. (Sadly this is a constant refrain)

I had a chat with the youngest about speaking up, pointing out unfairness etc. But she’d rather not argue and would rather do something else then get into an argument over an iPad.

This happens all the time. Biggest piece of cake, going first, best seat - eldest will automatically take it without thinking. This grates on me as I would never do this. Our home life does not model this kind of behaviour either. This is an innate character trait she was born with. How do I teach my eldest to be more thoughtful/kind/nicer to people? Is it even possible? I love her fiercely, and feel more protective of her than I do my youngest. The selfishness is a real fragility that I know will be a burden to her in life. But I hate that there are times when I really don’t like her because she is so naturally selfish. That makes me ache. Can she change? Aibu to want her to change? Not for me, but because usually being kind and thoughtful is the right thing to do?

OP posts:
Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:37

Ps I’ve name changed due to sensitivity of discussion topic, been active on here since before first was born.

OP posts:
user12345796 · 12/10/2019 10:40

You need to praise her whenever she is generous. Even a little bit generous, make a big deal of it. Say things like "that was so nice of you, the way you let your sister have that" and "I love the way you are such a kind person who would never say anything mean".

Talk about how kind she is behind her back to her dad and grandma so she accidentally on purpose hears. She will like the praise and the positive reinforcement and will build on it.

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:42

Second - we have been doing that for years. In the moment she is proud but it doesn’t seem to change the blueprint.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 12/10/2019 10:42

That sounds like fairly typical child behaviour. You have labelled her as “naturally selfish” and you’re seeing the way she acts through that lens. Telling her bring kind and considerate doesn’t come naturally to her do she needs to try harder is not a kind way to handle the situation at all. You are telling her she’s naturally horrible she needs to fight against it. How do you think that will have made her feel?

Youngest ‘didn’t say’ she wanted to share the working iPad so eldest used it exclusively. Youngest did something else. When we got up we obviously noticed.

Was the youngest actually unhappy doing something else?

Headinthedrawer · 12/10/2019 10:43

As much as I think you shouldn't label children I do get you op. It's very similar with my 2 children.As they have got older she has learnt to act empathetic (influenced by her friendship group not me!) and the younger has learnt to toughen up around her which I find a bit sad .My husband recognises her personality in himself which has helped as he has helped me understand her.My feelings are she is different to me but she will probably go far in life because she really doesn't care what others think.

Sparklfairy · 12/10/2019 10:44

9 is quite old for changing behaviour like this. My sister was and still is the same. Stubborn, awkward and inherently selfish. However I believe my mum enabled a lot of it. I would suggest pre-empting selfish behaviour when you can and suggest how you DD could act in order to be kind/thoughtful, and then reward that behaviour when she does it. Hopefully with consistent positive reinforcement she will start to display these traits unprompted. It is hard though, especially the older they get and yet the inner toddler with the focus on 'ME' rears its head SadFlowers

Mintjulia · 12/10/2019 10:44

Love them equally, praise them equally for their good qualities, and accept that different people have different personalities.

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:44

Purple - I hope it makes her feel like it’s not right? And that she needs to do different in future?

At what point does a child who automatically takes the biggest and the best become a selfish adult?

Youngest wasn’t happy but wasn’t prepared to argue.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:47

I love them entirely equally. I just understand one better.

I think ignoring it would be bad parenting. Like ignoring any bad or anti social behaviour?

I agree she may go far in life because she doesn’t care about what people think. Rather, doesn’t seem to notice. She’s very bright. I worry it won’t make her happy though.

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PurpleDaisies · 12/10/2019 10:48

Purple - I hope it makes her feel like it’s not right? And that she needs to do different in future?

She will feel like she is not right as a person and you’ll kill her self esteem. You need to shift it away from her natural personality and on to her behaviour.

Lots of positive praise when she does kind things. When she doesn’t, use “I don’t like it when you do ...”, definitely not “you’re naturally selfish so you must try harder”. What a horrible, horrible way to treat a child.

Wintersnowdrop · 12/10/2019 10:51

I think the iPad thing is a red herring. If she only has one hour of screen time on it a week, I’m not surprised she didn’t want to share that precious one hour. That should have been sorted by you ensuring both iPads were charged and let the younger one use it for an hour later today.
I think it’s a fine balance between being kind and being used and people taking advantage of your good nature. So in some ways, it might not be a bad thing that she thinks of herself first.

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:53

Oh good Lord purple I don’t tell her that! That’s my conclusion but I very much focus on the behaviour with her. I say ‘x wasn’t kind, how could you do differently? Hod would YOU feel?’. I don’t say ‘you are selfish’. Jesus.

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PurpleDaisies · 12/10/2019 10:53

Read your own post.

Explained she has to try more as it doesn’t come naturally. (Sadly this is a constant refrain)

Streamside · 12/10/2019 10:55

Looking around my corporate workplace I know which of these children's behaviours would get the most recognition.
You need to be careful to accept that they're quite different children.I wonder would sporting activities help her in terms of sharing and respect for others but I'm not sure I'd try so hard to change her behaviour.Girls need all the assertion they can muster as they grow up.

Dieu · 12/10/2019 10:56

Any chance she could be on the spectrum? My 18 year old daughter (diagnosed) has to walk out the room if anyone's crying. She can't cope with it.

LettuceP · 12/10/2019 10:56

Yes it's not great to be selfish but I'd be more concerned about the younger one spending the rest of her life being walked over tbh.

The selfishness is a real fragility that I know will be a burden to her in life I am quite a naturally selfish person, not in a nasty way but I make sure I look after myself and don't let anyone take the piss out of me, and I can assure you it has never been a burden. Yes your DD should learn be kind to others, share and help those who need it but please don't try and turn her into a people pleaser.

user12345796 · 12/10/2019 10:56

That's what I meant, Purple Daisies
I have always assumed that my children will be kind and generous, nice to other people, animal lovers and friendly. I have always assumed from the minute they were born that they wouldn't steal from me, that they would help each other out whenever needed and that they would never bully anyone. I have told them constantly that this is who they are. When they haven't quite been that person I have been disappointed but in a "this isn't like you" way.

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 10:57

I don’t say ‘you are selfish, you need to change ’. I use ‘we’ a lot. Wr all would like the biggest piece of cake but we need to understand that everyone would like that. I agree the distinction is important and I think we tread the right side of this line.

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WarmSunBlueSkies · 12/10/2019 10:57

Yes praise her when she does something good/ kind. That's only half of it though - you also really need to point out when she is thoughtless but also at the same time, tell her what would have been nice to do instead. Like grabbing the best chair, biggest piece of cake - point out that it was a bit mean and thoughtless. Then give her an example of what would have been kinder. For example, maybe her sister would like to choose which chair / slice of cake. She needs to have a nice/ caring alternative offered because this is what she just doesn't have. It's not just that she pushes herself in first, it's also because she lacks the alternative. She needs the alternative pointed out to her every time.

Like you say, it will be a burden. I have a loved one I grew up with and we've had to point it out to him, even as an adult. He's getting there. He may not do it out of empathy, more a learned response but at least it doesn't alienate him so much from those around him who don't love him as much as we do.

NoSquirrels · 12/10/2019 10:58

I wonder if the extremes of personality between the 2 DC make this much more obvious and worrying to you?

Taking the biggest and best is quite typical in kids, and it’s a behaviour we’re socialised out of (hopefully), but it’s normal. If your DC2 was more competitive, more assertive, then it would be easier to see that it’s not a flaw necessarily.

You just keep modelling, keep praising generosity.

If your DC2 didn’t complain about the iPad issue, and seemed happy not to persist, it probably doesn’t matter as much to her as you thought. But you perceived the slight to her. I think you’re maybe overly focused on it?

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 11:00

Lettuce that’s a really interesting perspective. Thank you.

OP posts:
ravenshope · 12/10/2019 11:02

The other child needs to say if she wants to share eg the ipad, as the older girl isn't a mind reader. I think the older one may become anxious if she feels she always has to be thinking of others when it doesn't come naturally, like there is something "wrong" with her? Has she been assessed for autism? I am autistic and as a child, I would never have comforted a crying child because I thought that was an adult's job. Likewise, I would share because I was taught but I don't know that it would have come naturally.

BlackCherry666 · 12/10/2019 11:02

You say that you feel more protective of her than your younger daughter r and love her fiercely.....

Any chance that she has picked up on this and sees herself as top dog and more important in the eyes of her parents?

Original poster
Wheredidigowrongggggg · 12/10/2019 11:03

Thanks warm sun, we do this all the time but perhaps I need to take the frustration out of my voice and keep my feelings neutral.

No squirrels - I think you are probably right on all your points. Food for thought.

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SlowDown76mph · 12/10/2019 11:06

How does your eldest respond when you ask her 'why'?
In similar situations does she learn when the same experience is encountered? For example, will she now think to share the ipad if it happens again?
Is she able to generalise an experience like this to a similar situation and respond more kindly and with insight..?

The reason I ask, is to get you to consider whether she is actually 'selfish'. Or, if she is unable to put herself in another's place, i.e. she lacks 'theory of mind' and is unable, not unwilling, to do so.