Can I change a naturally selfish child?

[Wheredidigowrongggggg]

I have two daughters, 8 and 9. My eldest has always been quite insular, she doesn’t have naturally great social skills. She is learning through her mistakes and is showing signs of occasional empathy, but it’s clearly an effort. I have seen her walk right past a hurt, crying child without even seeing them. It’s like it doesn’t register.

My youngest is naturally empathetic. Her nursery reports from pre-talking used say ‘X gave her toy to (spoilt) crying kid who wanted it off her’ - I paraphrase. Natural empathy, naturally kind and thoughtful, very popular. But the polarity is extreme between the girls.

We have 2 family ipads the kids are allowed to use for an hour before we get up. This is a real treat as they don’t have them during the week. This morning one hadn’t been charged. So my eldest sat with the one that worked and my youngest tried to charge the other one while she used it but with little success. Youngest ‘didn’t say’ she wanted to share the working iPad so eldest used it exclusively. Youngest did something else. When we got up we obviously noticed.

Had a conversation with each separately. To eldest : why did you not think to share the iPad that worked? Can you see that your behaviour is like your friend Y who you complain about? How does Y make you feel when she’s thoughtless/says unkind things/won’t share? Why do you do that to your sister? Explained she has to try more as it doesn’t come naturally. (Sadly this is a constant refrain)

I had a chat with the youngest about speaking up, pointing out unfairness etc. But she’d rather not argue and would rather do something else then get into an argument over an iPad.

This happens all the time. Biggest piece of cake, going first, best seat - eldest will automatically take it without thinking. This grates on me as I would never do this. Our home life does not model this kind of behaviour either. This is an innate character trait she was born with. How do I teach my eldest to be more thoughtful/kind/nicer to people? Is it even possible? I love her fiercely, and feel more protective of her than I do my youngest. The selfishness is a real fragility that I know will be a burden to her in life. But I hate that there are times when I really don’t like her because she is so naturally selfish. That makes me ache. Can she change? Aibu to want her to change? Not for me, but because usually being kind and thoughtful is the right thing to do?

So would you just stand by recrudescence and allow the selfish status quo? What would you do?

Doing nothing, or at least very little, is an option. Other than making sure the younger one gets her fair share of iPad, cake or whatever, I’d let the older one crack on. Stop seeing her selfishness as a great failing and stop the lectures about it. She will learn on her own account that a lack of concern for others has natural consequences.

KatyCarrCan

It isn’t selfish to sometimes put yourself first. It is selfish to always do so.

All really helpful thank you.

She doesn’t do brownies (it was too slow for her but she did love the socials) but she does do another team sport that she loves but isn’t particularly good at which I think is good for pecking order learning. She is remarkably resilient in response to ‘fucking hell you should have got that ball you idiot’’ which is the positive flip side to the total lack of empathy in other areas!

Having read most of the posts I think you need to focus on the youngest being more confident in speaking up and pointing out the older ones thoughtlessness etc.

It may cause more conflict but they both need to learn to deal with it especially your younger one.

OP, I'm an OAP and I'd always opt for the biggest piece of cake given the choice! - and I'm just lovely.
😊
Providing you eldest isn't physically restraining or trampling over others to get to the cake, she sounds just fine to me.
Different personalities.

Recrudescence I’m afraid I see parenting as a more active process than that. However, these comments have made me appreciate the importance of balance which is really helpful. I’ll also start gently encouraging the youngest to speak up constructively.

Maybe you should consider also spending an equal amount of time teaching your youngest how to assert herself?

I would be careful of labelling her naturally selfish. She has one hour of iPad her sibling didn’t seem bothered so she took the iPad. Not extreme 9 year old behaviour. I fact they both did well for the situation not to disintegrate into a big battle which deserves praise. Charge up the iPad and give the other child her hour latter today. I tend to look at traits as bringing both positives and negatives. It’s not bad to be a bit assertive. It’s not bad to share. It’s just a problem of it’s too much of one or the other.

And eldest isn’t too dog at school by any means so she definitely understands her place there (though ironically we are encouraging her to speak up for herself against stronger personalities there). I’ve just noticed the massive irony there whilst typing that. Who knew?

Julie - wise words, thank you. I think you have it spot on there.

total lack of empathy in other areas!

I stress again OP, she is 9. It is NORMAL to be centered on yourself a bit at this age (and wait til she's a teen!!).

Please don't see her as odd, or different, or as having some kind of disorder because she is exhibiting normal 9 year old behaviour.

It is the job of the parent to support,love, encourage the child and over time, with the right encouragement and unconditional positive regard from you,she will naturally develop into a caring and considerate adult.

Please don't demonise her or compare her to your other child.

I also wondered if she was on the autistic spectrum (this reminds me so much of a friend's situation with her two girls). Girls with autism do often present differently to the classic symptoms - perhaps try googling "autism in girls" and see if anything sounds familiar.

She is remarkably resilient in response to ‘fucking hell you should have got that ball you idiot’’ which is the positive flip side to the total lack of empathy in other areas!

What sport is a 9 year old doing where thats how she's spoken to?

She doesn't sound terrible at all. As others have said, work from both perspectives and teach your younger DD to be more forthcoming and assertive because as adults the people pleasers aren't any better thought of.

I don’t think you can change her personality and nor should you try, but you can change her behaviour. Anticipate possible problems and be proactive - when food is being served, an adult portions fairly or one person cuts, the other chooses, so there is an incentive to be fair. Explain what you want her to do in different situations and why, and tell her what will happen if she doesn’t. It is hard work but pick your battles and make sure she knows how to behave even if she only knows why because you tell her

Thanks sorethroat

'Tayto - no way. Not on my watch. Therein lies a race to the bottom.'

I think the race to the bottom starts with attempting to change your child's personality so that she becomes a people pleaser. Just love her unconditionally and be proud of who she is.

And everyone else, I’m reading everything andvits really making me think about my approach. I like the cut first other chooses approach. And accept that she is ‘normal’ for her age and that with gentle consistency it will come.

She’s in a sports team that scoops from a wide pool. She is in a small sheltered community so I rather like this smattering of real life. The coaches do stamp on it but gently - it’s a competitive sport and she isn’t as good as the rest - part of the reason we support her doing it as she flies at everything but sport.

Tayto- sorry but I’ll never be proud of selfishness but accept that my approach could be more measured and less black and white.

No two people are the same. Obviously encourage kindness and generosity, but don't make her feel abnormal for dealing with things in a different way to her sister and take it to heart.

I've got a pair of children like this in the same birth order.

I feel like I'm going nowhere, but there is the constant dialogue of encouraging DS1 to be kind, think of others, what's the effect on others, whereas for DS2 it's being clear about being assertive, be explict and defending himself. They both do scouting, and it is a good prompt to remind them of their promise. They are fine at school and activities in that I've never had any complaints. When younger, DS1 was a "you can play with me if you want to do what I'm doing" kind of child. He finds compromise frustrating.

Right from being small, DS1 will claim his full entitlement. He'll hog the ball, doesn't see the joy from exending the game to kicking it so someone else so he gets it back and has more fun than just kicking it himself. If he has sweets, they usually are all his unless you ask. DS2 will share the toy and the sweets as an instinct without being manually reminded. DS1 is not forced to share, but is reminded that DS2 will not share with him next time and that he will feel like missing out.

As it happens DS1 is on a waiting list for ASD assessment for a multitude of reasons.

It's hard because you don't want your children to be entitled and inconsiderate to others (to some extent it is behaviour that is useful to sucess, but not in extremes) and you don't want to raise a doormat who will be thanklessly exploited by others too.

It isn’t selfish to sometimes put yourself first. It is selfish to always do so
seaweed yy I agree but the OP isn't making it clear to her DCs when it is ok to put yourself first. I think it's very important to teach girls that sometimes it's right to put yourself first because society will ask them to put everyone before themselves, especially men.

Bang on Shiny!

I don't think empathy and selfishness mean what you think it means.

You have one kid that is not confident enough to even ask for what she wants and already avoids conflict. That's not empathy that's the road to being a door mat.

You have another that sounds fairly normal and average if slightly less emotionally available. She's not a mind reader either so if her sister didn't ask and did something else with some level of involvement how was she supporting to know?

They are their own person,the fact that you relate and identify with one and not the other is irrelevant. It doesn't mean that one is a paragon of virtue while the other is inherently selfish and needs "to try harder".

Stop policing their ipad time so strictly as well.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this. Obviously it's good to correct bad behaviour but I would get the idea that she is "naturally selfish" out of your head. She's just a kid. Kids wants big slices of cake, and to be picked first, and to have the best seat. She sounds quite normal to me.

Just keep reminding her to share and step in when you think it necessary, but I would really not give it much thought. You don't want to create an issue where there isn't one. if you think of her as selfish then it may encourage her to become that way.

Katy - in my mind, I teach both girls to put themselves first: youngest - in relation to her sister and sometimes her friends; eldest in relation to her challenging ‘friends’ at school, who funnily enough behave towards her as she does to her sister. Some of the examples are carbon copies which I use as examples.

Isn’t this enough?