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Original poster

to think that WW2 ended nearly 75 years ago so why the fuck do certain politicians keep going on about it when it comes to Europe?

223 replies

chomalungma · 17/09/2019 21:20

It ended nearly 75 years ago. It was such a tragedy for the world. Countless people died, countless people were injured, Lives devastated, countries ruined. Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

But it was 75 years ago. Our relationships with our European neighbours are different. We should have moved on from that. Yet we still have this WW2 mentality from politicians who weren't alive at all during those times. Who have to constantly say that "We saved Europe from Germany and the Nazis".

It's what is wrong with this country. Stuck in the past. Empire days. Harking back to the war era.

I love Europe. I have no issues with Germany. I have been there many times. What happened was a long time ago. I wish that others could move on as well.

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 19/09/2019 20:18

Do you mean that for the past 10 years people have been saying anything that disagrees with there personal view is akin to 1930s rise of Nazis?

If you think its one sided you are severely deluded

Drabarni · 19/09/2019 20:29

The Nazis gassed 5000 of my people in one night, and widely publicised the fact.
I want them remembered for the awful atrocity then underwent, not used for a political agenda now.
I love Germany and it has nothing to do with the past Germany. Let's face it we have little to do with the past Britain.

Patroclus · 20/09/2019 11:42

So you're 'dutch' and have no idea what Market Garden is?

cranstonmanor · 20/09/2019 17:37

@Patroclus
Knowing what market garden is and knowing the exact date are two different things...

cranstonmanor · 20/09/2019 17:42

And no, I do not do anything about the anniversary of market garden, it sounds like it is more important to you tgan it is to me. I do celebrate our liberation day though.

Please don't give me a history lesson as if you know what happened here, one set of my grandparents had to flee Arnhem with their 5 children, the other set survived the camps with 2 children. War is not just about what the soldiers did, it's much more about the survival of the ordinary people.

cranstonmanor · 20/09/2019 17:43

And we don't really see market garden as some huge succes tbh...

HateIsNotGood · 20/09/2019 17:56

My dad was a RAF glider pilot at Arnhem - he'd be so pleased that so many still remember....

HateIsNotGood · 20/09/2019 18:07

He was captured but escaped. He didn't talk much about the War as mostly he was deeply upset by the damage to humanity. All he could say about Dresden "those poor people, those poor, poor people" as he sat crying with his head in his hands. He was very proud to have taken part in the Berlin Airlift and called me (in Oz) elated when The Wall came down.

Notonthestairs · 20/09/2019 19:22

The way I see it we shouldn't ascribe blame or define a country's nature by actions taken by their ancestors.

I am proud of my grandparents actions in WW2. I am not proud of this country's part in, for example, the slave trade.
I'm not responsible for either. I can however commit to learn from what I know of our history.

In different ways WW2 ruined both my grandfathers lives. If there is a legacy in my family it's one of loss and psychological trauma. Nothing romantic about it.

Original poster
chomalungma · 20/09/2019 19:34

And we don't really see market garden as some huge succes tbh

No, it wasn't a success. It was a tragedy for Holland, despite the good intentions.

But people still remember. They commemorate and seem to show their gratitude for what the troops tried to do to liberate Holland.

And they have moved on with Germany. Which is what I think is so positive about the EU project.

OP posts:
MitziK · 20/09/2019 20:22

Because, other than some sort of sports event in the mid 1960s, we haven't done anything much else to brag about.

Patroclus · 20/09/2019 22:34

I said 'Market Garden'?

It was the beginning of the liberation of the Netherlands and people dont seem to realise a huge area of it was held- it was just the Rhine area crossings that wernt secured (for another few weeks). My uncle was shot there (and in Greece fighting yet somebody elses war) if we're playing that game. But him being an awful british/American soldier makes him worthless im sure.

General rule to live by, dont make ignorant comments about the war and its soldiers or civilian survivors to make a point about any perceived political grievance you or the brexiters may have.

Lowlandlucky · 20/09/2019 23:34

Having lived in Germany i can honestly say that yes i do judge Germany on its past, after all it took the Germans until the 90s to admit to its school children that yes they did in fact Gas Jews during WW2

StarbucksSmarterSister · 21/09/2019 08:38

⁹it took the Germans until the 90s to admit to its school children that yes they did in fact Gas Jews during WW2

Where on earth did you get that from? I know quite a few Germans, including my boss. He was at school in the 1970s and they were taught all about the Holocaust!

ForalltheSaints · 21/09/2019 08:42

We should remember what happened in WW2, each November 11th, and at other commemorations.

What we should not be doing is expecting some political decisions by other EU countries to be based upon our support for them in WW2, as some kind of gratitude.

MythicalBiologicalFennel · 21/09/2019 09:56

ForAllTheSaints one of the points made on this thread is that that "support" in some cases never happened and in others it wasn't anywhere near as crucial as it's made out to be by sectors of the press / politicians.

Prowlerneedsajump · 21/09/2019 10:03

Starbucks

Where on earth did you get that from? I know quite a few Germans, including my boss. He was at school in the 1970s and they were taught all about the Holocaust!“

Yes, my brother lived in Berlin for years and Primary children were taught about it.
Though of course “Germany” as we know it now didn’t exist until reunification so I wondered if PP was in former Eastern Germany? Possibly it wasn’t taught there?

SunnySw1myah · 21/09/2019 10:11

I have relatives that tell stories about living in the years of rationing

There are people alive today who fought in WW2

It's about respect for all those who died sacrificing their lives, for us all to live a better life

It's about respect

It's about learning from the past

fuzzyduck1 · 21/09/2019 10:42

If Britain hadn’t have stood upto the Germans in the Second World War Europe we live in now would have been a very different place.

A place ruled by dictatorship by a band of unelected people making rules for everyone.

There are a lot of comparisons with this and the Eu of today but it’s expanding by offering countries an empty dream of a better future rather than by force this time.

And the way they are treating the uk when we say we want to leave is as good as bullying if you don’t do what we say we will make you pay.

There are a lot of similarity’s between this and the way the Germans acted in the Second World War. So maybe that’s why they are still going on about the war. Oh and it was only a few years ago we finally payed off the loan we had to take out to keep us afloat during those times.

At the end of the war Europe was split into 3 British Russia and USA had a third each as spoils of war. British and USA gave their parts freedom and Russia took there part into the USSR.

The EU was something Britain should never have joined and now we want to leave they are not happy. Why can’t they just give us our freedom like we gave them theirs?

BertrandRussell · 21/09/2019 12:34

I really want to think all leavers are switched in and educated and thoughtful and knowledgable- then they say things like this- “Why can’t they just give us our freedom like we gave them theirs?”

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/09/2019 12:52

chomalungma

Do you have the same complaint about those that want to remain in the EU?

StarbucksSmarterSister · 21/09/2019 12:54

band of unelected people making rules for everyone.

Like Boris Johnson, chosen by 92,000 people when there is an electorate of around 40 million?

Or Dominic Cummings, elected by no one at all?

At least we have the chance to vote for MEPs imperfect as the system may be. Of course most people don't seem to bother.

FaFoutis · 21/09/2019 12:56

Selected versions of the past are being used as propaganda. This shows no respect to anyone.

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/09/2019 12:57

StarbucksSmarterSister.

Like Boris Johnson, chosen by 92,000 people when there is an electorate of around 40 million?

Just like any other Prime minister then.

Or are we just going to ignore that fact?

Original poster
chomalungma · 21/09/2019 13:49

Do you have the same complaint about those that want to remain in the EU

Depends how its portrayed. I have no problem if someone says that staying together in a trading relationship is a good way to reduce the chances of something like WW2 happening again.

OP posts: