to think that WW2 ended nearly 75 years ago so why the fuck do certain politicians keep going on about it when it comes to Europe?

[chomalungma]

It ended nearly 75 years ago. It was such a tragedy for the world. Countless people died, countless people were injured, Lives devastated, countries ruined. Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

But it was 75 years ago. Our relationships with our European neighbours are different. We should have moved on from that. Yet we still have this WW2 mentality from politicians who weren't alive at all during those times. Who have to constantly say that "We saved Europe from Germany and the Nazis".

It's what is wrong with this country. Stuck in the past. Empire days. Harking back to the war era.

I love Europe. I have no issues with Germany. I have been there many times. What happened was a long time ago. I wish that others could move on as well.

The scars of war run deep though.. My Mam ( who was about 2 at the time) and her baby brother and their Mam ( my grandma ) had to be dug out of their house following a bombing raid. The baby didn't make it.

It has no doubt shaped our view of ourselves and our relationship with Europe.

The fact that we haven’t been conquered in a thousand years whereas almost every other European country has had to be rebuilt from the ground up (sometimes constitutionally, sometimes physically, sometimes both) within living memory? Yes, that will lead to slight differences in perspective and national character. Who knew?

It would be nice if everyone could remember that the EU was founded to stop such things ^^ happening ever again. Not to create divisions about who remembers what, but to heal them

Belgium remembers British sacrifices, for what it's worth. Every evening. www.lastpost.be/en/home

It would be nice if everyone could remember that the EU was founded to stop such things The 'EU' as it is at present, didn't exist until Maastricht. The ECSC was founded in 51 to tie France and Germany together.

Yet again, as ever on MN, the other ITO that has actually prevented war in Europe for 70 years now, doesn't get a mention. It's in Brussels as well. Nice new HQ opened by POTUS.

Yugoslavia would not have been prevented had the constituent nations been part of the EU. It might have been had they been NATO nations.

No, it wasn't all that long ago. And WW2 wasn't empire days. Seriously OP . I stood on one of the Normandy beaches a few weeks ago and no amount if time will diminish what happened. And do you know what? It's the lovely French people who are keeping the memory of those brave men alive.

You might want to forget and brush it under the table but there are many who do not. And thank God for them.

A. Britain fought Germany to try and keep secure its own empire, and prevent the rise of a country in Europe more powerful than itself. There was fuck all altruistic "save Europe from the evil nazis" mindset. Britain knew about and was complicit in the holocaust; Britain betrayed Poland and the then Czechoslovakia.

(Bristling did NOT win the war - the Soviet Union did, funded and armed by the Americans. Britain made fuck up after fuck up, in its strategies and tactics.

I'm not British, and therefore have no idea what current politicians/commentators are saying. However, I do know a lot about WWII. Your analysis is wrong. Great Britain played a major role in destruction of the Luftwaffe. It also cracked the Enigma Code, which was a major contribution.

The USSR won the land war, but it could not have done so without US AND British supplies.

Finally, what is even more important was the aftermath of the war. Containing Stalin was mostly thanks the Churchill, not Roosevelt.

I think thinking about the past is more relevant now than ever.
The Wall Street crash led to a great depression which in turn led to right wing views and the Nazi's.
Sound familiar?
You are right, we never learn and make the same mistakes...it's history repeating itself which is why we should all wake the fuck up.

Ironically those remembering the war so feveously are the same people who want to come out of Europe and cut ties with our closest neighbours, isolating the country.

I stopped buying poppies after the referendum because of what they represent to me now.

@jasjas1973
The UK seems to have an unhealthy obsession with WW2 and its role in it.... bit like they do about football and 1966
Yet another poster that is unable to grasp the fact that the U.K. is not just England.
England won the World Cup in 1966 NOT THE U.K.

I think it’s crucial to be learning lessons from the conflict. Firstly because many of the institutions we have today were set up post WW2 to support peace. Secondly, everyone should be aware of the rise of Hitler and promotion of fascism. This is why there are so many concerns about prorogation. Hitler used and extended existing powers to subvert democracy as he became a dictator.

The ‘othering’ of particularly groups is also apparent to see at the moment and is a real risk to the fabric of society. We’ve seen the press go for ‘benefit scroungers’ , we’ve seen character assassinations on judges as ‘enemies of the people’ etc

These lessons are very different to jingoistic idiots moaning about Luxembourg.

@notangelinajolie

You might want to forget and brush it under the table but there are many who do not. And thank God for them

Way to totally miss the fucking point.

U have been to the D Day beaches. I have been to Arnhem. Dachua. Auschwitz. Kachinaburi. I have paid my respects and thought about what hell they went through. I am going to Arhnem this weekend to remember what happened there.

Don't fucking lecture me about remembering what happened to the incredible men and women who fought in WW2.

If you bother to read what I have said, then you might fucking understand how the bravery and sacrifice of those people is being used by our modern politicians and media.

Ironically those remembering the war so feveously are the same people who want to come out of Europe and cut ties with our closest neighbours, isolating the country

Totally this. We need to have strong ties with Europe, not lecture them on 'being nice to us and respecting us' because of our role in WW2.

It can't be allowed to happen again.

Yugoslavia would not have been prevented had the constituent nations been part of the EU. It might have been had they been NATO nations

Do you think that's true?

Countries that trade together and have close economic ties, open borders may well be less likely to go war.....but I do appreciate that the break up of Yugoslavia was complex.

You might want to forget and brush it under the table but

She doesn’t

She isnt saying this at all

No one is

You know what I admire. Countries like the Netherlands, Czech republic, France had their countries and populations were decimated under the Nazis. And now, they all work together. I think that's amazing.

At the 100 year commemorations of WW1, Merkel and the other leaders stood together. No one said she shouldn't be there. It was such a move forward. Looking forward, not looking back.

She isnt saying this at all

Thanks. Maybe I should have made my OP clearer and mentioned the quotes from certain politicians.

WW2 is used as nationalistic propaganda by those who don't understand (or care about) history.

The real lesson of WW2 is that economic deprivation can lead to nationalism, populism and fascism. Which is rather ironic for Britain at the moment.

And of course, sacrifices were made by many countries during WW2, not just in Europe where the sacrifices of many countries like Greece, Russia and Poland made a huge difference to the outcome, but all over the world where millions of civilians lost their lives as the war spread out over Africa and Asia. To think that Britain won the WW2 somehow on its own or because of its greatness is idiotic and fuels the nationalism and populism that gives rise to the very fascism that the British fought against at the time. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny how stupid people are.

Because they want us to focus on who pulled the trigger, not who pulled the strings.

It’s absolutely important to learn from the past, especially from those events in history that remind us of how low humanity can sink and what horrific things we are capable of. World War Two is such an event.

Also agree with previous posters. If you suggested that we should forget slavery or colonialism then you’d be ripped apart.

You know what I admire. Countries like the Netherlands, Czech republic, France had their countries and populations were decimated under the Nazis. And now, they all work together. I think that's amazing.
I agree op.

SHE ISNT SUGGESTING WE FORGET WORLD WAR 2

Sorry for yeling

@Winterlife - Britain would not have cracked enigma anywhere near as quickly without help (and an initial bombe) provided by polish scientists who knew that the Germans had enigma and fled before the nazi invasion. It should be an example of international cooperation rather than a British triumph.

WW2 is used as nationalistic propaganda by those who don't understand (or care about) history

Absolutely! even on MNs you get folk banging on about how WE survived WW2/rationing and want to bring back seasonal fruit and veg.
The WE in question tend to be people in their 50s living off the memories of long deceased relatives or 'Express articles.

They also conveniently forget that for much of the 30s Britain sought to appease the Nazis and public opinion was very much against confronting Hitler.

But it is this Blitz spirit crap that i really take issue with, parts of the UK were bombed, however what the japanese or german civilians suffered was truly terrible, the 1000 bomber raids on German non industrial cities, toward the end of the war, was indefensible.

British POWs used to clear the damage also thought this.

"The intensity of the bombing devastated the city’s historic center. The fire that raged during the bombing made superheated air rise with such force that it created a vacuum on the ground, ripping trees out of the ground, sucking people into the fires, and suffocating those spared the flames"

We don't remember this war crime do we?

@Booboostwo And of course, sacrifices were made by many countries during WW2, not just in Europe where the sacrifices of many countries like Greece, Russia and Poland made a huge difference to the outcome, but all over the world where millions of civilians lost their lives as the war spread out over Africa and Asia.

Not Russia, the USSR. One in four Ukrainians died on Ukrainian soil in WWII. Between 2/3 and 3/4 of the 3,000,000 Ostarbeiter were from Ukraine. One in three Belarussians died on Belarussian soil in WWII.

The majority of the first two million Soviet POW's, who were either starved to death, or served as the guinea pigs in perfecting death camps, were Red Army soldiers from Ukraine, captured in the earliest days of the war.

@Winterlife - Britain would not have cracked enigma anywhere near as quickly without help (and an initial bombe) provided by polish scientists who knew that the Germans had enigma and fled before the nazi invasion. It should be an example of international cooperation rather than a British triumph.

True, and that Polish breakthrough came from French supplied intelligence.