to think that WW2 ended nearly 75 years ago so why the fuck do certain politicians keep going on about it when it comes to Europe?

[chomalungma]

It ended nearly 75 years ago. It was such a tragedy for the world. Countless people died, countless people were injured, Lives devastated, countries ruined. Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

But it was 75 years ago. Our relationships with our European neighbours are different. We should have moved on from that. Yet we still have this WW2 mentality from politicians who weren't alive at all during those times. Who have to constantly say that "We saved Europe from Germany and the Nazis".

It's what is wrong with this country. Stuck in the past. Empire days. Harking back to the war era.

I love Europe. I have no issues with Germany. I have been there many times. What happened was a long time ago. I wish that others could move on as well.

“I've always loved the story of Dunkirk though, of all the war stories”

Don’t look too closely at the incompetence at the top that made it necessary or the utter callous sacrifice of Belgian troops to facilitate the BEF retreat then......

We wouldn't be in this mess now if it wasn't for incompetence at the top. "Lions led by donkeys" isn't that the phrase? And now we've been led to this. Nevertheless they expected hundreds of thousands to die on the beaches at that time. Many were saved, in large part thanks to the actions of individual civilians in civilian craft in a killing zone. That's the Britain I want to believe in.

“That's the Britain I want to believe in.”
I’d rather believe in a Britain that didn’t depend on the goodwill and public spirit of its citizens to shore up government veniality and greed and i And which didn’t throw any more metaphorical Belgiums under buses to paper over the cracks created by its incompetence.

Amen to that.

As a Jew, I'm sick of the EU being compared to the Third Reich. If it was that bad, I'd be dead or in a ghetto or having to flee somewhere else. And that's another thing. I saw a really disgusting meme about how in the '40s, the British kept away German gunboats but nowadays we can't keep migrants away. I bet anything these people would have turned Jews fleeing the Nazis away. In fact, the USA turned a literal boatload of Jews away and sent them back to Europe, where at least a quarter of them died. There are people in my synagogue who came over on the Kindertransport.

And 'we won the war' is bullshit. 'We' did not single-handedly win the war. Poland, China, France, Russia, the colonies in Africa and India - they also helped. Britain did not win it single-handedly and neither did the US. Russia played a HUGE part in the war. And I hate the glorification of WW2 and people talking about Blitz spirit, because sure, people did band together, but on the other hand you had the black market, rape rates rocketed during the blackout, and people's homes were looted. I'm happy I don't live in a warzone and I don't understand why people want to go back to that.

So true. And let’s not forget that Britain also deported back to Germany members of the German resistance in the 30s.

@PhilSwagielka Once again, not Russia. The USSR.

I think that for a lot of those bleating 'make Britain great again' it's actually shorthand for "we don't like immigrants, we particularly don't like anyone who isn't white, but we want the advantages of exploiting them under the guise of the empire"

So , in a nutshell, Britain is shit, Britain was always shit and is probably the shittiest country that has or will ever exist. Is that about right ?
The only exception to this is perhaps some of the above posters and their friends and family who are all great .

So , in a nutshell, Britain is shit, Britain was always shit and is probably the shittiest country that has or will ever exist. Is that about right

Ermmmmm.....nope

So , in a nutshell, Britain is shit, Britain was always shit and is probably the shittiest country that has or will ever exist. Is that about right ?

That’s pretty much the left’s view of Britain, yes. Certainly nothing good about Britain can ever be allowed to be said on any subject without giving greater room to the bad.

OK - so who did behave impeccably in the war then ? Which countries can we look back at and say they made the right decisions, they did the right thing ? Who can we look to now ? Who's leading by example, who's doing the right thing ?

Err... please tell me where I said that?

It was war-time. There's no such thing as impeccability. Hell, there's no such thing as impeccability in peace time. All we can do is try. Who's doing the right thing, well that's what the debate is about isn't it. FWIW I'm noticing just how many senior ex-politicians - ex-prime ministers, ex-cabinet ministers - from both parties are saying that no deal is a bloody awful idea and we should put it back to a vote.

Sorry Dark, I wasn't particularly singling out you. It's just the continual bashing of just about everything that Britain has ever done is just as bad as the Rule Britannia mindset in my opinion.

Actually I do get a bit fed up of all the comments on the past too. Many countries were engaged in empire, always have. Britain did some good occasionally as well as harm (and I have no great wish to defend the firebombing in Dresden for instance). The op is pretty much of the same mind I think.

It's also important to remember - and that's not for you but for the morons who talk about Britain saving the world that:

1. Britain sold Poland and Czechoslovakia to the Hitler to keep out of the conflict they must have known will come.
2. Polish, Czech, Slovak and other pilots came over to Britain and saved the country in the Blitz.
3. Without them and the help from the US Britain wouldn't have had any chance and people would have starved to death.

Let's not forget that Britain helped causing the WWII because, like it's now, they desperately wanted to believe that while geographically they are Europe, they have nothing to do with the continent.

That’s pretty much the left’s view of Britain, yes. Certainly nothing good about Britain can ever be allowed to be said on any subject without giving greater room to the bad

Way to totally and deliberately miss the point.

Of course our history in WW2 is something to be proud of. A point I made quite clearly in the OP. I have been to many of the WW2 memorials, the places where battles have been fought, seen the graves of the young soldiers and been to the concentration camp memorials and learnt a lot more about the horrors of what happened in great detail.

What happened in WW2 does not give us the right to treat other European countries like they 'owe us' and does not give politicians who were not even alive then to hijack the bravery of such people for their own ends.

OK, just to amend - Munich was about Czechoslovakia only.
Poland was a matter of Ribbentrop - Molotov pact - when the good old people of Britain were still rubbing their hands with glee and saying, oh yeah, nothing to do with us.

It's just the continual bashing of just about everything that Britain has ever done is just as bad as the Rule Britannia mindset in my opinion

As the OP, can you please point out any 'bashing' of Britain I have done?

It's the politicians and the media with their little England mentality who have hijacked the memory of WW2 for their own ends that I have an issue with.

So you just said that Britain helped to cause the war .The 3 points you make I agree with however none of them are causes of the war. Was it not a lot of Nazi jackboots marching into other countries that might have contributed towards causes of the war?

“OK - so who did behave impeccably in the war then ? Which countries can we look back at and say they made the right decisions, they did the right thing ? ”

None. Including Britain. It was war. No such thing as impeccable behaviour in war.

“Was it not a lot of Nazi jackboots marching into other countries that might have contributed towards causes of the war?”

Of course.

Eerie when do you think Britain should have gone to war?

To the OP, I'm not saying it's anything that you have said. It's just there have been a lot of posts pointing out how shit Britain is and always has been. One thread a while back was saying Britain was complicit in the holocaust.