to think that WW2 ended nearly 75 years ago so why the fuck do certain politicians keep going on about it when it comes to Europe?

[chomalungma]

It ended nearly 75 years ago. It was such a tragedy for the world. Countless people died, countless people were injured, Lives devastated, countries ruined. Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

But it was 75 years ago. Our relationships with our European neighbours are different. We should have moved on from that. Yet we still have this WW2 mentality from politicians who weren't alive at all during those times. Who have to constantly say that "We saved Europe from Germany and the Nazis".

It's what is wrong with this country. Stuck in the past. Empire days. Harking back to the war era.

I love Europe. I have no issues with Germany. I have been there many times. What happened was a long time ago. I wish that others could move on as well.

But my father, along with many others from many countries, did help save Europe and the world from the Nazis

So did mine and several uncles, one of whom gave his 18 year old life in the struggle. However for professional reasons I know a lot of Germans and the current attitude of some people makes me sick. My parents and my aunts/uncles would be disgusted by it too.

There is a massive world of difference between everyone, politicians included, remembering the wars and the huge sacrifices made

And people demanding the gratitude of ‘Europe

I thought that was what choma was referring to...specifically the recent luxembourg comments

A. Britain fought Germany to try and keep secure its own empire, and prevent the rise of a country in Europe more powerful than itself. There was fuck all altruistic "save Europe from the evil nazis" mindset. Britain knew about and was complicit in the holocaust; Britain betrayed Poland and the then Czechoslovakia.

Bristling did NOT win the war - the Soviet Union did, funded and armed by the Americans. Britain made fuck up after fuck up, in its strategies and tactics.

And Blitz spirit? We had a grazed knee, in comparison to every European country (other than Switzerland and Spain and Portugal) who was metaphorically in a massive RTA.

So anyone banging on about how great we were in WW2 can jog on.

(And yes a very very similar set of events is happening now in the UK that saw the rise to power of the Nazis, and fascists in Italy. So be afraid imo)

I agree it’s so embarrassing the way these people and IDS is harping on about this. Britain is the current laughing stock of Europe.

Nothing says learning the lessons from the past like breaking an international peace treaty in the GFA does it
If the Troubles return to NI you wouldn’t see Francois and co in a hundred miles of what they helped destroy. I can’t believe anyone is stupid enough to be taken in by these delusional politicians ranting on about the war like a pissed up bloke in the pub.

@BuckingFrolics - 'Britain knew about and were complicit in the holocaust'. How did you work that one out? Do you know something that countless historians have missed or are you just being goady?

Does it rile you to see the attitude of many towards Britain's involvement in slavery because it was a long time ago

Many modern institutions in Britain profitted and much wealth was generated from the slave trade. There are still statues around of people associated with the slave trade. I can see why countries and people who were affected by it have concerns over how Britain still remembers its history over this.

Germany was destroyed in WW2. The rest of Europe didn't ask to be invaded. The Allied forces did bring peace - and it was a massive force - let's not forget Russia.

But it was 75 years ago - and there is still this 'Little England, against all odds, standing alone, fuck the Germans, the French should be grateful' mentality.

I thought that was what choma was referring to...specifically the recent luxembourg comments

This is exactly what I am referring to.

Veni- does it rile you to see politicians casual attitude towards the potential breaking of the GFA because the Troubles were a decades ago?

This is exactly what I am referring to

Well thats a relief

I deffo still agree then

does it rile you to see politicians casual attitude towards the potential breaking of the GFA because the Troubles were a decades ago

Hell, some of our current politicians just think Ireland should become part of the UK again - that's their attitude.

It's a superiority complex.

Well, certain people on the left are forever bashing present-day Britain for centuries-old pieces of history such as empire, slavery, the treatment of Ireland, etc etc etc. Somehow, those failings are evergreen and to be repeated at every opportunity.

But if someone mentions that for a period of time before the entry of the US and USSR into the war, Britain was the only thing standing between Europe and total Nazi domination, and that if we had fallen then the liberation of Western Europe by the US would have been nearly impossible, well, that’s just impolite and we should just jolly well keep quiet about it!

I dont think anyone has said we should keep quiet about it

But if someone mentions that for a period of time before the entry of the US and USSR into the war, Britain was the only thing standing between Europe and total Nazi domination, and that if we had fallen then the liberation of Western Europe by the US would have been nearly impossible, well, that’s just impolite and we should just jolly well keep quiet about it

So the Prime Minister of Luxembourg should be quiet and not speak his mind about Brexit because the UK stood up to the Nazis?

Really?

It's really embarrassing. Britain helped liberate Europe with help from lots of other countries. Not on it's own. There is a difference between remembering those lost in the war and bringing it up every time sovereign countries do anything we disagree with. It's this living on past glories attitude that has meant the German economy has been so much stronger than ours over the decades since. While we are still going on about 'winning the war' like it was a game of football everyone else rebuilt and decided to work together to ensure it never happened again, resulting in the longest period of peace and prosperity in European history.

Let’s put it this way: without Britain, Luxembourg would not exist, but without Luxembourg, Britain would still very much exist.

The least we might expect is the courtesy and civility that normally obtains amongst national leaders.

The least we might expect is the courtesy and civility that normally obtains amongst national leaders

Why?

This is politics. This is a serious thing. And the events of 75 years ago does not give us the right to earn respect - especially given the way we are acting now.

Lueylou

Nope. The operative word is potential.

noodlenosefraggle - "resulting in the longest period of peace and prosperity in European history."

I think you're forgetting Yougoslavia.

Sorry, Yugoslavia.

Ok I'll give you that, although it was a civil war rather than pulling everyone in (apart from the UN disaster at Srebrenica)

I think you're forgetting Yougoslavia

A quick Google shows that the history of Yugoslavia and the European Economic Community is interesting.

If it had been more integrated with trade and FOM, I wonder if things would have been different?

StepAwayFromGoogle The U.K. government, including Churchill were aware of the mass killings of Jews and others in many European countries as early as 1942, I believe. The Jewish people were not considered a special enough case for refuge to be provided. Even post war, the support for and restitution of Jewish property and houses was minimal with anti-semitism continuing across Europe.

In 1938 when the Kindertransport began making journeys to the U.K. the agreement to allow the children in was with a caveat that they would not be a burden on the state.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holocaust-allied-forces-knew-before-concentration-camp-discovery-us-uk-soviets-secret-documents-a7688036.html

I heard a journalist, with decades of experience in war zones, disagreeing with the well known view of 'learn your history so you don't repeat the mistakes of the past'. He thought that actually we need to forget our history because it just passes resentment and aggression down through the generations. One example he gave for this was during the Balkan wars a man gave him a note, it just had a date on it, I think it was 13 something so people were holding grudges from 700 years ago.

Anyway, I agree with you op.

Actually , I heard a news bulletin the other day in which it was other EU member states bring up the war , not Britain.
They were saying that because Britain was never invaded by Germany , Britain could never truly appreciate what european union really meant

They were saying that because Britain was never invaded by Germany , Britain could never truly appreciate what european union really meant

I get that - I do think that being an island, being separate to the continent and our WW2 history of not being invaded has shaped us - and no doubt linked into the rhetoric of politicians, our obsession with WW2 films and 'plucky England' (I chose that word carefully) fighting against all odds. The White Cliffs of Dover etc...

It has no doubt shaped our view of ourselves and our relationship with Europe.