to think that WW2 ended nearly 75 years ago so why the fuck do certain politicians keep going on about it when it comes to Europe?

[chomalungma]

It ended nearly 75 years ago. It was such a tragedy for the world. Countless people died, countless people were injured, Lives devastated, countries ruined. Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

But it was 75 years ago. Our relationships with our European neighbours are different. We should have moved on from that. Yet we still have this WW2 mentality from politicians who weren't alive at all during those times. Who have to constantly say that "We saved Europe from Germany and the Nazis".

It's what is wrong with this country. Stuck in the past. Empire days. Harking back to the war era.

I love Europe. I have no issues with Germany. I have been there many times. What happened was a long time ago. I wish that others could move on as well.

StellaSideways - yes, I say that Britain helped causing the war through their politics of appeasement.
The Nazis had lots of help marching through those countries because the ground was cleared for them.
Let's not forget that Germany had lots of admirers in high places before the war - weren't the Queen and her sister photographed with their hands raised in Nazi salute? Not because they were Nazis, it was because nobody saw anything wrong with Germany saying that Jews and Slavs are inferior races and the Aryans (that included the English, of course) can get some space for them at their expense. On the contrary, rather.
And of course, there was the politics of "we are so far away on our little island and our colonies, why do we care about what the European folks are doing."

@Dapplegrey - there was no war yet. The war was enabled by those who all of a sudden realised they need to save their asses at the expense of others and were totally blind to see what was growing straight under their noses since 1918, if we consider that WWII was a direct consequence of the unresolved issues of WWI and the Treaty of Versailles.

It's just there have been a lot of posts pointing out how shit Britain is and always has been

History is complicated. I've been to India to the seen of the Indian mutiny or the Lucknow massacre and the Indian rebellion depending on your perspective.

It's always interesting to hear other people's perspective from different countries and look deeper into the events of the past.

Do we get any Brownie points for (yes, eventually: no one likes war) joining in despite the fact that Hitler would rather have liked us as allies?

I get the impression you think we're some kind of godlike saviour race actually. Sadly we can't save Syria either.

And StellaSideways, can you please tell me your version of the Munich Pact?

(that was to Eerie)

“One thread a while back was saying Britain was complicit in the holocaust.”

Well, the Allies knew about it in 1942, and declined to offer Jewish people special refugee status. Is that what you mean?

Dark - war isn't about brownie points.
War is a result of something. And what I am saying that when Britain behave like they saved the world and talk about the heroic spirit of the British, this just creates the myth that doesn't tell the full truth.
Or are we talking legends here and not the reality?

Eerie 1938 was only 20 years after the end of the First War with its terrible slaughter.
There were few families who lost no one in that appalling war. Those who survived were scarred mentally and often physically for life.
Hindsight’s a fine thing but surely it’s understandable that the UK was anxious to avoid further conflict?

That sounds like you're not a million miles from agreeing with the op.

Dapplegrey, do you think people in the countries which were directly impacted by the Munich Pact and then Ribbentrop-Molotow which happened with quiet approval of Britain and France didn't lose anyone? How do you think they felt when they woke up one day and saw the Nazis marching through their streets and they knew they were sold off to Hitler?

Eerie, i'm not denying that Neville Chamberlain & Co were all for appeasement.
I always understood that after the horrors of World War 1 and the terrible loss of life that was suffered the feelings of " Please God not again' were very strong,
However, that all changed once Churchill was back.
So I'm not sure if your blaming Chamberlain for appeasing while others are blaming Churchill for warmongering, and none of this brought about the holocaust which was the earlier charge.

I think we absolutely need to remember the war, to honour those who died fighting against fascism; to remember the lesson of the horrible dangers of racism.

However, some of the people who keep talking about it have a very historically illiterate view about it, as though we were just plucky little Britain giving our lives to save Europe from the Nazis, and basically that half of Europe is to this day our enemy, and seeking to set up the 'Fourth Reich' if it hasn't already, and the other half owes us eternal gratitude for rescuing them!

In fact, the ALLIES won the war. We fought hand in hand: the British, the Poles, other allied Europaean countries, the Resistance movements, Russia, the USA, Canada, Australia, India, the Caribbaean countries, all of what was then the British Empire. The country that lost the most people in the war, by far, and probably made the difference between victory and defeat was the Soviet Union. Which in itself shows that there is rather little correlation between contribution to winning the war, and Being Always Right Politically, Then and Forevermore, which is another logical fallacy made by too many of our politicians and journalists.

Dark - I am million miles away from agreeing with the OP on the topic of just moving on.
History has the tendency to repeat itself and we haven't learned yet that every action can have a catastrophic consequence.
And we are seeing the repeat of history right now, watching men juggling with our futures and lives like it's balls that can fall and nobody cares. Trump, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Cummings etc. just to name a few and let's also include Corbyn who instead of action just dreams about communism for Britain that's never going to happen while Johnson et. Co. are waiting to get richer and more powerful in case of no-deal.
All that raising of the "true British spirit" and "we have won the war, we can win this" is a very dangerous demagogic rhetoric that covers the real problems coming our way. Nationalism has always been a great weapon because nationalists are easier to manipulate.

Thank you, ddl1, that's exactly my point.

StellaSideways - Chamberlain had lots of sympathisers for his politics and let's not forget that Hitler's ideas were also really likeable. Half of the bloody Royal family sympathised with them because they liked the idea of the Aryan superiority, especially as it well aligned with the idea of colonialisation of inferior nations and civilising them.

Dark - I am million miles away from agreeing with the OP on the topic of just moving on

What do you think I am trying to say in my OP?

@chomalungma
Many brave people fought for what was right, put themselves on the line and did acts of incredible courage. We should remember what they did and honour their sacrifice and courage.

I think that instead of sacrifice and courage we should remember what caused the war and how to prevent the conflict arising in front of our noses as the parallels are horrifying.
75 years are not a long time. Certainly not a long time to create and celebrate a myth because whatever caused that war and whatever were the results - it's still here, in the memories of the people, just waiting to be taken out, dusted, covered with new polish and reused.

i am million miles away from agreeing with the OP on the topic of just moving on

OP DIDNT SAY THIS

I know its pointless to keep saying this but it could be a really interesting thread...if only people would understand the OP

After WW2 Europe was in tatters financially but also peoples day to day life experience and survival so the concept of a united Europe was developed to build bridges , cooperation to repair the devastation and avoid a repeat of events .

One of the reasons European nations, particularly France and Germany, set up the EEC/EU was to form a close trading and political alliance to prevent another world war happening. So it's not irrelevant

Totally agree, any British politician making 'we won the war' comments need shooting

It would be nice if everyone could remember that the EU was founded to stop such things ^^ happening ever again

No it wasn't.

@Dapplegrey - I am pretty sure you will be surprised to hear that people in the countries who found themselves suddenly occupied by Germans had a bit of a different perspective on the sudden relief of the Brits that they avoided the war.
You may also be surprised to hear that the Munich Pact has a nickname of "About Us, Without Us, Against US" and is considered a betrayal but those who were involved in the impact but not in the decision making process.

Totally disagree, OP, 75 years is nothing. We must try more actively, not less, to remember the past. If we don't try to understand the past we understand nothing.

''It happened once therefore it can happen again.' Primo Levi, Holocaust survivor.

but those who were involved
BY those who were involved