To let holiday plans fall through because of a pissy email?

[Mummy536]

Long story short I went very low contact with my controlling parents soon after my first child was born. They were very upset and pissed off with me of course but they have given me the space I needed.

We've recently moved much closer to them because of my job (now 3h away as opposed to 12h) and they offered to take us on holiday. DH is keen, I am more reluctant, but on balance, as I can't avoid them visiting for a few days without feeling like a cow, I thought a holiday would be a way to keep us busy so things wouldn't get too intense, so I said I was open to the idea.

So DF says on Monday he's going to make reservations and let him know in 2 days. I've had a ridiculously busy time at work and my hands are full with DS when I get home so I've not had a chance to think about it much.

I've just had a pissy email from DF for not replying. Now I don't feel like going. They provoke a violent, petulant reaction inside me that wants to cut off all contact, and I hate it - I thought I was feeling a bit better about them but it turns out I'm not.

I feel guilty about DH who is exhausted and worried about money and could use a free holiday and DS who barely knows his GPs. Should I suck it up and agree to go?

"In your past or in your head"=in your experience.Acknowledge the validity of your experience.Don't denigrate it.As long as you are fair and objective,you are entitled to make decisions based on what you have previously known or experienced.Trust yourself.

Yes, I disagree with them sometimes. I try to be kind and considerate and model thoughtful listening.
If there's an issue, I say something gently...but it doesn't feel gentle because it's new. If they say something horrible, I say it's horrible.
If they don't communicate their wishes and snap at me because I didn't realise what they wanted through ESP, I snap back.
If they criticise, I laugh at them. If I know they will discount my opinion, I give it anyway.

It's a relationship between adults so I won't stand for being treated as less.
It has helped.

@Trialanderror46

Thanks for posting. That's pretty much how I've handled my relationship with my mother - conversation so bland, it was limited to what TV she was watching. Any time I let any personal info out, she would leap on it with criticism. It was excruciating when I had to do it once a week. I don't think I can go back to that. It's really helpful having a DS to talk about 🙄.

@NoSquirrels

Thanks for the suggestions. That was my initial idea actually before this whole holiday thing - that DH would deal with my parents completely while I was at work. I told him if they came at Christmas I'd find reasons to go into the office. Maybe the only caveat is that I'm not entirely comfortable about not being with DS while my parents are. Even though I completely trust DH to look after him. I just feel a bit uneasy but maybe I should let go of that.

I'd given only a passing thought to visiting my parents but you make it sound like a decent prospect when making it part of a larger holiday, which also puts us in control. Thank you!

OP are you me? I have a very similar situation with my mum and I've been NC since February. I've had a lot of counselling to untether me from the emotional ties and 'obligation'. She showed up at an event at the weekend - we were only together an hour - and I'm completely unravelled again.

Don't go on holiday with them. If they weren't your parents, are they the kind of people you'd be encouraging your dc to have a relationship with? If not, and with the imminent move back to the other side of the world, I wouldn't push it.

You really can tell who has and who hasn't dealt with emotionally abusive and manipulative parents on here! Don't go OP. It's not worth it. If they want to fly over and stay nearby, they can get a hotel. DS can see them a few days but you don't have to entertain them 24/7. Remember that regardless of whether they are good grandparents or offering a freebie to your stressed DH, it will be you that is hurting again in the end.

A cruise, did you say? Not the best place to escape from your parents if you need to.

I am not sure about this.
We are told of parents who have offered holidays and have actually given a large sum of money towards a house. It sounds to me like they are trying to be generous. However, this is looked on with suspicion.
We were told that OP had asked for 2 days to decide but apparently DF contacted her after 36 hours asking for a decision. This may have been to do with changing prices on the holiday.
We know that OP has not been living near the DGP but are reasonably close now at 3 hours away.

Most grandparents are keen to see the little ones and these DGP might be using the money to try to get them nearer the DD Dsil and DGC but they dont seem to have much success because any offer of help is looked on suspiciously.
The OP says that she and her DH would never have a cruise if it was not for this being offered for free by the DP/DGP. It looks a bit like her only interest in them is that they can pay for everyone's holiday.
There is more to be considered here than just the holiday. It is the whole relationship with all parties. How would OP feel if the DGP one day said we are going on holiday and we are not taking anyone else. It could be that with the constant rejection the DGPs decide this is too much of a struggle for people we hardly know even if they share DNA.
How will DS feel when he finds he was left out by DGPs because they tried to fight to see him. It gets to be too big a struggle as people age. How will DS feel when he finds himself abandoned by his grandparents, It is such a big picture and decision. It is fine for others to put forward ideas and experiences but OP is the one who has to live this life. She needs to think hard but one thing I would say is that I am not sure that the parents are aware that they have been put LC. It looks like they are still trying to have a relationship with OP DSil and DS.
Good luck trying to get to a decision, it is tough going,

I think you have an easy get out OP if you don't want to go, with the change of dates. Simply go back and say that you couldn't respond straight away as you weren't sure if the dates would work with being so close to Christmas, but now you have checked it's not going to work for you.

I think visiting them but staying in a hotel or apartment if you can, is your best option.

Thanks for posting. That's pretty much how I've handled my relationship with my mother - conversation so bland, it was limited to what TV she was watching.

I once asked my husband how he manages to cope with my stepfather without ending up really annoyed. He actually took me through a few safe topics that he talks about with him. Weather, flying, golf, sports (careful there), TV.

Sadly we're now having to have the conversation with our DCs about what is safe to talk about with grandad and won't make him cross.

We may go NC again.

Something to think about when you're considering whether your children really need a relationship with their grandparents.

@TheBouquets

The OP says that she and her DH would never have a cruise if it was not for this being offered for free by the DP/DGP. It looks a bit like her only interest in them is that they can pay for everyone's holiday.

It's not that we can't afford to go ourselves (we live in a very expensive city, we have our own savings that we want to put towards a house and we're budgeting for our own holidays in the region). It's more that cruises are really extravagant and not our type of holiday. We'd rather go on a driving holiday than on a luxury boat. I've been on a cruise with them before as a teenager and it was ok, I was a bit uneasy at the excesses and I'm not bothered about doing it again. DH has never been and is mildly curious about the experience but he'd never pay for one himself because it's not really our type of fun. My parents on the other hand are serial cruise passengers and have been on 2-3 a year for 20 years. It's basically their home turf - they've been on this particular ship before. It's not a trip of a lifetime for any of us - this one is what they could get at the last minute. It's a trip around the local region that they have been to before and DH and I are planning to visit on our own anyway. I am definitely not bothered about them going on holiday without us. I spoke to DH again and his main interest in this is that he thinks it would be a neutral way to spend some time but not too much together. He would prefer it to them visiting us (not staying with us) and me leaving him with them to it while I work long hours. For him it's the least bad option.

How will DS feel when he finds he was left out by DGPs because they tried to fight to see him. It gets to be too big a struggle as people age. How will DS feel when he finds himself abandoned by his grandparents,

Yes this is what I'm worried about. That they might have mellowed a bit and will not be too demanding (they can't be, they still live in a different country, and when we do go back to the UK they will be nearer 80 and not easily able to fly for 12h) and I'm kicking up a big fuss about nothing making everyone upset over my own feelings about a stupid email. Because I haven't had a proper conversation with them in the last 2 years, I worry I have built it up too much in my head. The next 2-3 years is basically a last chance for them to spend some quality time with DS. Because it will be very hard to do so afterwards when we move back to the UK. And they may not be looking a fight this time because as I said they are desperate to spend some time with DS - they've watched from afar hour he spends lots of time with his other Nana and seen us spend Christmases with my PIL.

They do realise I went LC but they don't know why. They have reached out to me before.

At the risk of revealing too many details, my DH pointed out that the country my parents are in is not very stable at the moment. So he's adamant about not visiting for the next few months, possibly the next year.

I’m sorry OP, but you sound like you are being really cruel and unfair. They have tried to reach out to you, and you have never explained why you just cut them off? They’ve watched from afar, desperate to know their GS, and you’re still not prepared to give them a chance, even though you know they’re getting old and will probably not travel soon? They’ve rescheduled out again, and suggested a holiday that they’ve done with you before. And all you want to do is drag up the past and refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it goes? Their hearts must be breaking, and I really struggle to see how you justify your behaviour towards them when they’ve never been given an explanation from you about troubles with your relationship with them. The more you update, the more heartless you sound.

If you don’t want contact with them, that’s your right. But stringing them along saying you’ll go on the holiday, and then not confirming, and now wanting to not go isn’t fair on them, your DH, or yourself.

@Derbee

I'm not heartless - I'm posting because I feel sorry for them, I feel guilt and I am conflicted. If you want to know all the lovely details, I did everything I could to please them under their criticism and interference for 30 years and I was unhappy and suicidal for most of it. The breakdown was triggered by them when they literally screamed at me not to buy our first house because "it would cause me stress" and then wrote a long email blaming me (still pregnant) for not listening to them when it fell through. I cut off contact then, re-established it briefly when DS was born and only went LC in the last two years when I decided that I wanted to focus on my DS and my own happiness for once - and I've been much happier. They never asked me directly why I went LC, they complained to relatives and asked them to ask me - this is how dysfunctional our communication is.

So yes I feel hounded by their emails and my gut reaction was a rush of bad feeling that I've not felt in awhile. Do you think I should just suck up all that bad feeling, keep a lid on it and play happy families for a week? Yes I'm considering it! That's how messed up I am about all this. Thanks for your understanding.

And for the record, the timeline is:

Sunday night - October holiday is proposed by father. I discuss with DH and say I'll check with work
Monday afternoon - father goes to travel agent and reserves (without paying) December dates and sends 4 emails in a row (and mother who is with him sends 2) asking me to confirm in 2 days.
Tuesday evening - Father sends angry email wanting an update.

Yes that is unreasonable. They have an idea, you're expected to make a decision immediately and inform them on their timeline.
I can understand they have reasons for that. You have reasons too and they are also of importance.
It's a big decision.
You would have been reasonable to say you needed more time.

Dunno who the op is who suggested that a cruise is a great idea.... Nah. You can't really avoid them at all if you need space. You will have a poky room to yourself. I've been on many and it gets fraught if you're not good pals on the first place.

Omg just read update. Don't do it. You will Also be indebted to them long after.

So the cost of the free holiday is your mental health. You can't go to theirs, and it's a tad unfair on your DH to expect him to do all the socialising if they come to yours - particularly if they are as dreadful as they sound.

So what's left ? For the record I don't think your DC will think any the worse of you when they are an adult for not going on a free cruise with estranged GPs, it doesn't sound like you're depriving him of anything good.

I'd say no to the December cruise, say that the dates don't suit. If they come back with an alternative suggestion - so October as originally discussed or another date - then that's a sign that they are willing to compromise and it should be given more thought. If they come back with a stream of abuse as to why that's the only date that works and why are you being so stubborn and what could you possibly be doing that's more important- well then there's your answer.

SOME dysfunctional parents may become decent grandparents, but others won’t.

You’re sensible IMOnot to want them to have any unsupervised access to DS, and should stick around when they visit, unless you have full confidence that your H will actively support your decision.

I have experience of a parent avoiding their visiting parents by working, leaving it to their partner to handle the ILs, which as the DC was confusing and difficult.

Derbee you really don't have a clue about emotional abuse and the effects of it do you?

I don't think you would be saying the same things to someone who had been physically abused by their parents either. Thankfully the law these days takes emotional abuse a bit more seriously than you do.

You don't like them. You're too rude to bother replying to an email when they're offering you a free holiday.
Just don't bother going, but yes YABU.

So cruises and the ship are heir home turf still...

I honestly think it will send you back to a bad place. The hounding emails show you that they haven't changed - they want x to happen and you are being pressured to agree to it.

Is it a possibility to meet up with them for a few hours on a shore trip?

OP, there are some great posts here, but if you want more support with coping with the fear, obligation and guilt of relationships with toxic parents, head over to the Relationships board. There is lots of help there...the long-running 'But We Took You To Stately Homes!' thread is an excellent place to start.
And remember, at a basic level, as an adult you never HAVE to go on holiday with anyone.

@Derbee - just stop now - your posts are not helpful. You clearly have no comprehension of what it is like to be brought up by toxic parents.

OP - there are many of us out there (and some excellent posts from PP’s in a similar situation) don’t go on this holiday, it will affect your mental health. My children have little relationship with my parents as I am very low contact for all the reasons you have previously stated.

My father used to mention to us - oh we’ll all go to “insert holiday of your choice” and I’ll pay - to an outsider.... oh what a wonderful father doing that for his children and grandchildren. I actually used to feel physically sick and start shaking when he said it. Thankfully it never came to anything and my lovely DH said that he would step in to stop it if necessary.

If you want something to read that will help you - this book started me on the road to my own recovery.

If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World - by Dan Neuharth