To let holiday plans fall through because of a pissy email?

[Mummy536]

Long story short I went very low contact with my controlling parents soon after my first child was born. They were very upset and pissed off with me of course but they have given me the space I needed.

We've recently moved much closer to them because of my job (now 3h away as opposed to 12h) and they offered to take us on holiday. DH is keen, I am more reluctant, but on balance, as I can't avoid them visiting for a few days without feeling like a cow, I thought a holiday would be a way to keep us busy so things wouldn't get too intense, so I said I was open to the idea.

So DF says on Monday he's going to make reservations and let him know in 2 days. I've had a ridiculously busy time at work and my hands are full with DS when I get home so I've not had a chance to think about it much.

I've just had a pissy email from DF for not replying. Now I don't feel like going. They provoke a violent, petulant reaction inside me that wants to cut off all contact, and I hate it - I thought I was feeling a bit better about them but it turns out I'm not.

I feel guilty about DH who is exhausted and worried about money and could use a free holiday and DS who barely knows his GPs. Should I suck it up and agree to go?

[NoSquirrels]

sends 4 emails in a row (and mother who is with him sends 2) asking me to confirm in 2 days

That’s crap.
Don’t go.

Look - you’re conditioned to be a people pleaser. And whilst you recognise now that you need boundaries and space from your parents, you’re still trying to please both them AND your DH, who is - unintentionally, I’m sure, but nevertheless - putting pressure on you to relax those boundaries.

You’ve said your DH is worried you’ll regret the lack of relationship (pressure). He’s said he’s “adamant” he won’t do a trip to visit them as part of a larger holiday because of unrest in the region. He’s said he won’t support you in only seeing them a little if they make a trip to you and he has to entertain them in the daytimes while you work to maintain your distance. He’s not actively helping.

Just say no. Let go of the guilt. Reassess after Christmas. But don’t put all this pressure on yourself and don’t let anyone else do it to you either - unwittingly or not.

[returnofthecat]

Reading your backstory (in your words), as an outside, neutral party, they don't actually sound like terrible people. Which is what I would expect given you've gone low contact and you're the one explaining why.

I don't think you should go on holiday with them - rightly or wrongly, you've got yourself to a point where they could see you in the morning, ask how you were and it would trigger a huge panic from you in thinking they were somehow judging you. I don't know if your relationship with them can be saved, but I do know you're not comfortable being around them and you don't know how to react to them. I would suggest counselling and if your therapist agrees, gradually rebuilding contact. Not going away with them. It's just far too much, too soon.

I would ask your DH how he honestly feels about going away with your parents and your child without you there. I sense from your posts that he doesn't hate your parents like you do and has been going along with things because he has your back and wants to support you (which sounds rather lovely and well-intentioned). He won't do anything he doesn't think you're comfortable with, so give him permission to form his own opinion.

However, if the problem is in the relationship between your parents and you, and not in your parents being fundamentally awful people, there is no reason why your DH can't be in the same place as them without having a similar reaction to you. He hasn't lived through all your experiences. He doesn't have all the same triggers. And if he's happy to go away with them so he can supervise/facilitate access between your parents and your child, that's OK.

I would say though it only makes sense to suggest this if you do intend to work on your relationship with your parents. If you do genuinely think they are terrible people (and I appreciate you may have left things out), you shouldn't be encouraging your loved ones (your DH and child) to be around terrible people. Free holiday or not.

[Mummy536]

@Hederex thanks for the wise words. I will look for that thread.

[zingally]

Agree with what others have said, going from low contact to a holiday, is like marrying someone after one coffee.

If both parties want to build up contact again, go slow. Meet halfway for lunch, then have a day trip, then a weekend away. Just see how it goes.

[Mummy536]

@returnofthecat appreciate your neutrality.

I know they are not fundamentally awful people - they thought they did the best they could. From their perspective they always put me first. They just can't see how damaging their attitude was to me - it's both a generational and cultural gap. They wouldn't know what emotional abuse means because in their mind they pushed me for my own benefit.

It's actually hugely helpful to have my DH as a buffer whenever I've had to interact with them. They keep asking to talk to me on my own because they feel they can't be so "open" with my DH around - whatever that means. I've asked him not to leave me alone with them. So yes, he's fine to act as a facilitator and they feel they have to be more polite around him. He got asking with them fine initially, he just hates how easily I'm triggered around them.

In any case I asked DH to respond to ask for more time and it seems they gave us a false deadline, which is actually tomorrow.

[Mummy536]

*he got along with them fine

[Hederex]

Parents don't have to be monsters to impact your life in a negative way, and it's ok to empathise with them...just not at the expense of your own mental health.

[rookiemere]

I like the posters idea of meeting them on a days shore visit if that's something that can be done. Short and sweet and can be combined with a family ( GPs not included) holiday.

Can you check the cruise itinerary and see if that is a possibility?

[Mummy536]

@rookiemere

No they specifically want to take us on a cruise to see DS. Add I said they've been on close to 50 cruise holidays and the itinerary for this one is not actually that exciting - they've been on better ones in this region. If we can't go in December (because availability is not so good in October or November) they will come and visit us in October instead (they haven't actually asked us if this is ok.)

[Mummy536]

And the cruise starts in my city btw. The idea is they are flying here first and then then we board together.

It would be hard to manage a gradual build up of interactions as some posters have suggested. If they were to visit us, because of the cost of flights and hotels they would expect to see DS a lot, so it would be an intense week.

[rookiemere]

Best scenario would be that they go on the cruise without you , but catch up for a day before and after, but that's not going to happen because they're only really going on the cruise to spend time with you.

Goodness, don't know what to suggest then, other than trying to get them to come for a shorter visit . I was on the fence before - because you know free holiday- but I think it would be a disaster, at least if they come to visit you you're on home turf and have some coping strategies. Suggest to DH that you book a really nice trip for the 3 of you after to recover.

[Mummy536]

Haha, thanks everyone, I appreciate all the suggestions, sorry I keep shooting them all down. There are no good options really, just looking for the least bad one for both of us.

[RandomMess]

I think you just be honest with them "holidaying with you wouldn't work for us, of course you want to DS and we're happy to meet up with you for a day either side of any holiday you book but that is all we can manage at the moment"

[MummytoCSJH]

@derbee you clearly have no experience of this. I'm glad that you don't because its horrendous, but don't go making the OP feel guilty. OP you don't need to explain yourself to anyone on here nor your parents. Who on earth advises somebody who has been subjected to what is essentially abuse to explain to their abuser why they don't want contact with them . You owe them nothing!

[CheeseStraws]

OP. NO!. Don't go. Listen to your gut reaction.

Stop feeling guilty about the money, they have plenty of it and you are their only child.

I thought you were crazy to consider going anyhow but then you mentioned flights and now a cruise! Ask yourself why they want you on a cruise, where short of going overboard you can't get away!

Maybe the occasional Skype call and if they get difficult you can go and blame the connection.

[Trialanderror46]

Covert emotional abuse, which is what you are describing, is so very hard to explain to anyone who hasn't themselves experienced it.
Saying no, or putting up boundaries tends to cause people like your parents to 'up the ante' with their behaviour in order to get you back and toeing the line.
Sadly, there is no way out of this without backlash from them.
Of course you would like your ds to have a relationship with them, if it were possible to have one without it having a negative effect on your own little family.
I highly recommend some counselling or therapy for you, to help you work through it, and be really heard by someone who understands.
Take a look at the forum: out of the fog, particularly the Unchosen boards. Masses of useful threads on there, and an ebook you can download.
Much love to you

[Loopytiles]

Least bad option is declining the holiday, no brainer!

[Myriade]

@Mummy536, I am the child in a similar situation.
My parents kept a low contact with dad's parents for my grand parents sake and for my sake.
On my pov, it was disaster. The emotional abuse they directed towrds my parents ended being directed towards me too. I have never felt onfortable around either of them and avoided them as much as I could (as soon as I coud do that). this then created massive problems within the family.

It REALLY wasnt worth it

[Spellcheck]

Hey OP, what a horrible position you’re in. Whatever type of people they are, they trigger something in you.
I think to go away with them would mean you’re beholden to them - you will owe them forevermore because they paid for your holiday.
Perhaps if they want to see DC they should just come and stay with you for a couple of days. You might have to suck it up, but in some way you retain a bit of control.

[Cloglover]

Am sorry I haven't read the whole thread. I couldn't get my head around the posts that were making out that you were unreasonable so I skipped most of it. But I didn't want to not post. Listen to your instincts. You went nc for a reason. If they were so unempathtic that they couldn't see the damage they were doing, what's to say they haven't changed? You don't owe them a relationship with your son. You do not need to sacrifice his wellbeing for social convention. It doesn't sound like they have changed, by sending the pissy email. If I sent a deadline to a mum friend who worked and had a small child the email would be 'I know you're busy but have you decided xyz'. This email is a precursor of what's to come. Heed it's warning! If your partner needs a break that badly he can book a cheap hotel somewhere. A bad family holiday will make him feel worse! For your and your sons sake do what you would do in an ideal world. X

[Jack80]

If you have genuine reasons that they are controlling don't go, its your choice, could you not have a day out together otherwise if the holiday would be a nightmare.

[Ilikelegos]

From what I have read in the group , you have taken money from them to buy a house and haven’t then bought a house as sale fell through . As far as my understanding is you haven’t returned the money. They have pushed you to work hard and concentrate on your grade and have tried to put your education first and your needs ahead. I know in this culture people are calling it emotional abuse but this is what most parents do in certain parts of world . They have very high expectations from their children

I don’t agree with their parenting style and this style didn’t work for you ,it has led you to feeling low and under confident .

Now you want to meet them at your terms which is understandable but to meet them as equal first return their money that you took as house deposit and then don’t go on holiday unless you can pay completely for it . The reasonable option seems to be to let them come and visit you as it will be in your house and they won’t be providing the money for it, you will be able to dictate your terms better .

[Ilikelegos]

Because whether no matter what we say , if we take money from people it is hard to stand our ground . If you want to be treated as equal return all the money . I was in similar situation with another relative and returning money and not taking any money from them has led to better boundaries and has led to all of us being on equal footing

[Missingstreetlife]

Don't go on the holiday. Listen to your gut.
Christ yes you should be able to tell them you are upset, calmly and clearly, no blaming or high emotion. If they can't accept it there is no hope of a relationship, just superficial low contact.
Try seeing them just for a weekend, or couple of days, don't worry about cost, don't stay with them or them with you, meet out. They are coming to your city, let them stay in a hotel, or meet in a neutral place.
Get a grip and don't worry about their reaction. I told my mum we got on better in small doses, she had to accept it

[averythinline]

Just say no...

here you go 'permission' -

No is a complete sentence

No that doesnt work for us

No that doesnt work for us..

seriously the emotional pain it is and will be giving you is in every line of your posts......

you do not have to say yes to any of their suggestions..

christmas/cruise dates ....inconvenient
Visit in october instead - they can stay at hotel maybe lunch? - you are all very busy at that time of year...

Just email back your dad saying thanks for the offer but No..

the rest are sub issues - dates / what sort of cruise/ dh holiday/dgc relationship - millions of people aruond the world never meet their grandparents and suffer no consequences..... fill your child life with people that love you/add positive stuff to your family - not people that add pain..