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Original poster

To wish we could stop the societal belief that women will/should have children

235 replies

SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:13

I've just been saying on another thread how I wish I'd been brought up to be more confident with a life without DC. It's practically embedded into society that women / girls WILL go onto have children, 'when you grow up and have children of your own' etc...

I had a lot of fertility issues when TTC and lost a lot of pregnancies and it got me thinking that the thing that affected me the most was that I had this belief that I wasn't a proper woman because this is what women should do and should be able to do and if I'd not grown in a society where everyone acted as though it was a given that this would happen then I may not have taken it so hard. I couldn't be satisfied with 'just' my life because I'd always thought it would involve children one day and it's just the way your life is supposed to go.

I'm not sure exactly what changes I'd like to make but being through what I have done, I don't want to encourage my child into the way of thinking that I grew up with, 'one day you'll be married and have kids etc.'

I don't even know if I'm making sense but I want my DC to be encouraged that there isn't this one perfect way of life that everyone should follow and if they can't then there's something wrong with them and they'll never have as good of a life without it.

I feel like far too many people take it as a given and pass that belief onto their children when in reality it really isn't guaranteed.

OP posts:
SeaViewBliss · 03/09/2019 11:22

I think you might find things are slowly shifting.

My DD is 20 and, at the moment, does not feel that she wants to have children. I know she is still young and that could well change but, a lot of her friends are definitely talking about it in terms of it being a decision to make rather than it being a given. Part of that is a feminist thing for them and more recently, environmental. DD does not relish bringing children into a world that she sees as completely fucked!

A lot of it will be down to those closest to them. If you raise your DCs to know that it is entirely their decision and one that shouldn't be taken lightly, let them know that whatever they choose is ok with you, they will be more confident to say 'it's not what I want' if that's what they decide.

I have talked to DD a lot about the opportunities she might have to travel and learn if she doesn't have children. Not taking away that lots of people still do that with children.

I am hopeful that if she feels those close to her are ok with it, that she doesn't really have to convince anyone else.

It might be a long time before lots of people are more accepting of women choosing not to have children but I do think there is a shift happening.

AnneLovesGilbert · 03/09/2019 11:31

Sorry for your struggles Flowers

I take your wider point about telling children they don’t have to want to be parents, and I have several friends who are childfree by choice. Some people want children and some don’t.

But in the years I was losing the 5 babies I miscarried before having my daughter, I was desperate to be a mum, to have a baby, to stop going through the heartache, that was all about my own feelings and I didn’t feel any pressure from anyone around me or society in general that was judging my losses or me for “failing” in my duties as a woman. If anyone had told me to stop trying, to enjoy my job and book a holiday, think about how life would be better without children, I’d have told them to fuck off and punched them on the nose. I didn’t want children to satisfy some societal need, I wanted one for me (and my husband!).

There’s a difference between telling people to look beyond getting married and having children because “it’s what everyone does” and telling people who want children that they shouldn’t because there’s more to life without them.

HeadLikeAFkingOrange · 03/09/2019 11:32

Can we stop calling people without DC "childless" too?

It's very presumptive to label people as "Child-LESS". It implies you're not living a whole life unless you've procreated. Many people are Child FREE by choice.

Child free, not childless!

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:33

That's interesting, you're probably right to be honest!

I suppose I'm coming at it from the side of wanting children but having to face it may not happen which was incredibly difficult when you've been conditioned into believing it was always going to happen.

The same applies for those that don't want children of course, no one should feel pressured in that way or feel like their decisions are wrong or odd.

There's so much additional pressure. I remember comments from my parents about 'making them grandparents' etc... It actually just adds another layer of guilt to it.

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 03/09/2019 11:36

Who are you berating HeadLikeAFkingOrange? Who’s said childless? Both terms are used by people who don’t have children for different reasons. Childfree - choosing not to have children. Childless - wanting children but not having been able to have them.

You’re not the language police and your outrage is misplaced on this thread. Anything else to contribute?

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:37

telling people who want children that they shouldn’t because there’s more to life without them

Totally agree. I don't mean we should be doing this or saying this to people struggling with fertility issues. I would have felt exactly the same as you. But I do believe, in my case anyway, if I hadn't have been brought up believing that this would definitely happen, this was how my life should go etc... Then I may have been able to come to the realisation that there is more to life quicker than I actually did. Don't get me wrong, I'd have still struggled, I'd have still been distraught because I wanted a child myself like you say, not just because I felt like I should, but there was definitely an element of that to it as well. I definitely felt embarrassed and like I was failing at something.

OP posts:
NotWavingButMNing · 03/09/2019 11:37

I don't recall any sociatal pressure to have children. I was fairly certain I didn't want them from an early age. DH and I were very happily child free for 18 years and then we decided that we would take the gamble of having children. It was a gamble because neither of us had a burning desire for DC and we certainly didn't care what others thought, it was more a now or never thing as I was 38.
Gamble paid off it was the best decision I ever made.

misspiggy19 · 03/09/2019 11:38

The only people I know that don’t have children are those who couldn’t conceive.

YesQueen · 03/09/2019 11:39

People keep saying to me "oh do you not want children?"
Yeah, I would love them but I need a man for that! I couldn't afford a child as a single parents so no, I won't be having them and it's not the choice I wanted. Yes it's upsetting but people make out like it's so easy to just pick up a man and marry and that's it
Angry

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:39

NotWaving, you don't think that most people assume a woman will want to/will have children? I definitely do. I saw it as a child looking back and I still see it as an adult now. I can't even tell you how many times I was asked things like 'so when are you having kids etc...'

OP posts:
MumApr18 · 03/09/2019 11:42

Just to add another dimension to this - I think there is a rising societal pressure to not only have children but have them later also. It's almost expected now that, because most mothers do end up going back to work, they will have an established career to go back to once baby is born.
Personally I feel I've been a burden on my employer having my two children before 30. I feel like, if I hadn't had any children, my employer wouldn't have batted an eyelid but I've been subject to unfair scrutiny and judgment for having my children "young".

Sn0tnose · 03/09/2019 11:43

It's very presumptive to label people as "Child-LESS". It’s just as presumptive to label people child free too, so how about we just stop labelling people completely? It’s only an extra couple of words to say that someone doesn’t have children without hurting or annoying anyone.

OP, I think it really is as simple as not saying to your child ‘When you grow up and have children of your own...’ If they ask you whether they’ll have children, tell them you don’t know. Tell them it can be a choice and sometimes, it’s not a choice. Tell them that they might want to do other things, or they might want to be a sahm and that neither is right or wrong, but that if it’s a choice, it has to be their choice.

SeaViewBliss · 03/09/2019 11:43

Come to think of it, DD is one of 6 cousins aged between 20 and 30. Only 2 have children and I have never heard anyone in the family questioning those that don't.

Perhaps it is because we have 2 aunts in our family who didn't have children. One because she lost her husband at a young age and never met anyone else and one who never wanted children.

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:45

I think a lot of people don't see or don't accept this is an issue unless they've actually struggled with fertility or faced judgement over not wanting children.

I know I for one will be conscious never to assume a colleague will have children, a friend, my own child etc... Because I know from bitter experience it isn't always the case (and they may not want to!) But I just don't think people think about it until they've been through it.

OP posts:
Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:46

Tell them it can be a choice and sometimes, it’s not a choice. Tell them that they might want to do other things, or they might want to be a sahm and that neither is right or wrong, but that if it’s a choice, it has to be their choice

Yes absolutely, this is what I intend to do.

OP posts:
RedPanda2 · 03/09/2019 11:46

Growing up it didn't occur to me that having children was a choice and not just an expectation. Realising it is was liberating and I am staunchly childfree by choice. Some of my friends are too.

BossAssBitch · 03/09/2019 11:47

misspiggy
The only people I know that don’t have children are those who couldn’t conceive

Really?! I know LOADS of people without children who simply didn't want them, like me. No issues with conceiving here, I just felt and feel fulfilled without having kids.

Blueoasis · 03/09/2019 11:47

I'm not having children because I would be a useless mother. It takes a lot of effort just to try and keep my life on track, add in someone else? Oh dear god they are doomed.

I have considered donating my eggs though. I'd seen a clinic near where I live that looks for donations, which would be a nice way to help someone else have a child. I need to lose a bit of weight though apparently to do it, so gonna try.

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:49

Growing up it didn't occur to me that having children was a choice and not just an expectation

This is exactly how I felt. And not even just a choice but sometimes, not a possibility!

OP posts:
AlexaAmbidextra · 03/09/2019 11:51

Waiting for the parent to pop along to explain to us that we don’t know what love or fulfilment are if we’re childfree. It won’t be long. 🙄

Sicario · 03/09/2019 11:55

There is not one single good reason I could give anyone for having children. From the women's position, it's a huge con. Ruined career, finances blown out of the water, your life turned upside down, birth injuries leading to incontinence. I could go on.

I have children and I wouldn't wish them away for a moment but with hindsight I couldn't for one moment recommend motherhood to any of my daughters. And why on earth would anyone want to bring a child into this shit-show world anyway?

Original poster
SeeTe · 03/09/2019 11:55

I remember sitting with my mum and her friends in a restaurant once after just losing my 6/7th pregnancy and being asked over and over about when I was going to make her a grandmother etc... It was excruciatingly awkward. It was only when it happened to me that my mum understood why those sorts of questions are so insensitive and stem from a general belief that everyone wants and can have kids.

OP posts:
TabbyMumz · 03/09/2019 11:57

"when you grow up and have children of your own' etc..."
I say this to my son, aswell as my daughter

IncyWincyGrownUp · 03/09/2019 11:57

I have a fair number of friends who have chosen not to have children. I thought knit should be easier for those who make that decision to access sterilisation and vasectomy procedures, but the medical patronisation of those who choose not to have children is breathtaking.

HeadLikeAFkingOrange · 03/09/2019 11:58

@AnneLovesGilbert I think you've taken my comment completely out of context. It wasn't aimed at OP, more of the habit which calls those without DC "childless".
I'm fully aware that infertility leaves people feeling they aren't complete, but the notion that anyone without DC must have struggled to conceive just perpetuates the myth that everyone wants children.