To wish we could stop the societal belief that women will/should have children

[SeeTe]

I've just been saying on another thread how I wish I'd been brought up to be more confident with a life without DC. It's practically embedded into society that women / girls WILL go onto have children, 'when you grow up and have children of your own' etc...

I had a lot of fertility issues when TTC and lost a lot of pregnancies and it got me thinking that the thing that affected me the most was that I had this belief that I wasn't a proper woman because this is what women should do and should be able to do and if I'd not grown in a society where everyone acted as though it was a given that this would happen then I may not have taken it so hard. I couldn't be satisfied with 'just' my life because I'd always thought it would involve children one day and it's just the way your life is supposed to go.

I'm not sure exactly what changes I'd like to make but being through what I have done, I don't want to encourage my child into the way of thinking that I grew up with, 'one day you'll be married and have kids etc.'

I don't even know if I'm making sense but I want my DC to be encouraged that there isn't this one perfect way of life that everyone should follow and if they can't then there's something wrong with them and they'll never have as good of a life without it.

I feel like far too many people take it as a given and pass that belief onto their children when in reality it really isn't guaranteed.

I feel sorry for the woman/man who I feel isn't prepared to give up short term pleasures for the lifetime of pleasure that having children brings

What an absolute load of utter fucking bollocks. You just have to take a brief glance at MN to know that, actually, having children isn't always a "lifetime of pleasure" (🤮)

I wonder if a child free person in their old age will regret that they placed those things above having children

What does this sentence even mean? How can you regret something that you never did? Are you saying that people with children will have a different old age to those without? Is having children a guarantee that you will never be lonely in old age? Is that the reason to have them? So you aren't lonely when you're 80? How selfish.

I haven't caused any damage to my children by saying "when you have children..."....that's just silly.

You know what, you might. I grew up with endless comments about "When you have children" even though I knew from the off that I didn't want children of my own. It made me feel that my choices weren't respected or taken seriously.

I wonder if a child free person in their old age will regret that they placed those things above having children?

Is that a full house of twatty comments now? Even if the child-free DO place materialistic things over having children, how is that wrong? I have placed other priorities - peace and quiet, solitude, independence, travel, hobbies, career - above having children, partly because I have precisely zero interest in having kids anyway and partly because all of these things are more important to me, on balance. If I'm happy with things now, what will change so that I somehow end up racked with regret when I'm older?

I know far too many people who will quietly admit that they wish they'd never had children to take the risk of having a child I don't want now in case I want it when I'm old.

@Sn0tnose and @TheCatsACunt Good posts!

Our best hope is to limit one child to each couple. None would be better.

"I wonder if a child free person in their old age will regret that they placed those things above having children

What does this sentence even mean? How can you regret something that you never did? Are you saying that people with children will have a different old age to those without? Is having children a guarantee that you will never be lonely in old age? Is that the reason to have them? So you aren't lonely when you're 80? How selfish.

I didn't write the above sentence, but of course people can regret something they never did. I've heard quite a few people say they'd wish they did so and so, including having children.
Old age might be different for people with children than without, as they might be cared for by family, rather than not?
It's not a guarantee you wont be lonely though. I dont think the poster who said the sentence above intimated it's a reason to have them.

Your post was much more contemptuous and aggressive in tone than any of mine You’re absolutely right. It was full of contempt.

I have had fertility issues but Im honest about them and Never felt the need to hide by saying it was because I didn't want children. Good for you. But as you seem to struggle with the concept that not all women feel the way you do, let me say it again. Some women do not want to tell other people about their fertility issues.

This is a discussion board but as so often I see on MN conflicting options aren't liked especially when they are not in support of what is often minority opinion. Differing opinions are welcome. The site would be a very boring place if people all agreed with each other. If you had come on and said ‘I’m a mother, it makes me really happy and I thoroughly recommend it’ I’d have respectfully disagreed but I’d have had no issue with you. My problem with your opinion arose when you attacked women who chose not to have children for being materialistic.

What people on this thread wanted it seems is for everyone to post "of course it's yours choice" of "of course no one judges" "of course we shouldn't tell our children to have their own kids one day" - fact is the majority of people want and enjoy being parents and most of us parents would like to see our own children experience that one day No, what was actually asked was whether it was possible to get rid of the expectation that every single woman will want to have children or that, if they can’t have them, they haven’t ‘failed’ in some way. If the majority want children and are able to have them, then great! Good for them. But that is not a decision that you get to make for every woman. Nor do you have the right to make anyone feel bad for either not wanting or not being able to have them.

I haven't caused any damage to my children by saying "when you have children..."....that's just silly.

You know what, you might. I grew up with endless comments about "When you have children" even though I knew from the off that I didn't want children of my own. It made me feel that my choices weren't respected or taken seriously.

Yes, yellowdaffodil.you grew up with endless comments......not the same as one comment.

I wonder if a child free person in their old age will regret that they placed those things above having children?

Christ on a bike, is this your speech for Miss World or something?
It's so saccharine you could sweeten lemons with it.

fact is the majority of people want and enjoy being parents and most of us parents would like to see our own children experience that one day

Speak for yourself, @itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted. You sound extremely insecure, as if you need everyone else to make choices that bolster yours. I am a parent, but I am not going to pretend that it's somehow better than life as a non-parent which I led for almost 40 years or to suggest in any way that a life without children is in any way less valid, enjoyable or interesting.

And my decisions about my own care in old age will the same as they were before I had my child.

I wonder if a child free person in their old age will regret that they placed those things above having children?

Having spent a lot of time visiting a nursing home over the past decade, I can tell you 100% that there’s no guarantee that people with children had regular visits from their offspring.

Interestingly, the best visitors seemed to be those without children themselves as they visited elderly parents while siblings with children were usually busy with the excuse of “their own family”.

If you’re counting on your kids looking after you in your old age, you might be in for quite a surprise.

To repurpose a common meme...

Meanwhile, shall we have a whip round so lovelydream can be sure she's got enough to pay for the extra-super-shiny polish for her halo?

I was sort of having this conversation on the bus with two other people, this morning.

We all have children, but recognise that life has changed since we were young (all 52+). It used to be a given that you'd get into a relationship, girls/women were the gatekeepers of sex and you'd have children to your partner/spouse.

We all agreed that we need to see each other and ourselves as individual, free thinking people, capable of real emotional independence, who all get to choose our own path. Sex, as in what bits you were born with, shouldn't influence anything.

In other words, lets finally get rid of our, shoulds, oughts and remove our bias.

As a celibate, single woman, I'd include the idea of monogamy and relationships, as well as reproduction.

My eldest DD has decided to remain child free, people try to tell me it's a shame. What is? Her living the life she wants, it's bloody brilliant.

I actually dont want my children to be burdened with having to look after me, and I dont think I'm in a minority.

LOL@ @BuzzShitbagBobbly

My eldest DD has decided to remain child free, people try to tell me it's a shame. What is? Her living the life she wants, it's bloody brilliant

Absolutely!

would never say to someone's face that I judged them for CHOOSING not to have children but at the back of my mind if I'm honest I'd think it was because they were so wrapped up in materialistic things, money, relationship, holiday, careers etc to think of sharing that with a child

this is what you wrote. i am embarrassed for you that you wrote such twaddle.

I didn't feel any pressure from anywhere other than my own intense desire and me and my husband deciding it was right for us.

I don't think any of the women I know who went on to be mothers felt it was society- more of a need and want internally.

It's quite easy to say 'I never felt any pressure' when you've successfully done the thing in question.

It's a different story for people suffering infertility or having their choice not to have children constantly questioned.

*It's quite easy to say 'I never felt any pressure' when you've successfully done the thing in question.

It's a different story for people suffering infertility or having their choice not to have children constantly questioned.*

Quite. I wonder why it is that many people cannot use their imaginations and think, “you know those kids I had at 28 and 30 to the man I met at 25? The ones I call “my world” and constantly talk about. I wonder what it would have been like to have never had that opportunity and be 35 or 40 or 45 even though it was what I really wanted? Would I have only been too happy to deal with people’s insensitive questions and comments? Would I have wanted to be questioned or judged about it on a regular basis? Or would that have actually hurt a bit?”

Of course, I’m talking from the childless perspective but surely it’s not too difficult to imagine NEVER wanting something...like a dog or a certain job or to visit some country they have zero interest in and then to be constantly questioned and judged for that life choice and told you should regret or that makes you somehow deficient emotionally or selfish. Would that not be a teensy bit irritating for people.

I imagine the people that are completely unable to empathise with someone who’s life is different from theirs are the exact same people who constantly ask the insensitive questions or make the hurtful comments that lead to other women crying in bed at 3 in the morning or angry that the incredible lives they have worked hard to build are belittled and deemed worthless. And I doubt they give a flying fuck about the impact of their short sightedness and will continue with their behaviour as long as they draw breath.

It’s not true to say all parents enjoy parenting. My dad’s mother made it very clear how much of an inconvenience he was and that she ‘wished her abortion had worked’. None of this ‘you’ll love it when the baby arrives’ crap. He’s been NC with her for 25+ years now. Personally I actively really do not want kids - I think I’d bitterly regret it if I had one and that’s not a risk I’m willing to take. But unlike some on this thread I accept and understand that others feel differently and derive enjoyment from parenting. That’s fine. I just ask they give me the same respect and accept how I feel without questioning it. Also what is wrong with wanting to prioritise holidays, money, travel etc over kids? If that’s what someone’s decided and they’re happy why is it a problem? Why is being selfish a bad thing? As long as it’s not hurting anyone else, be as selfish as you like and enjoy it.

i agree with you didgeball, but in general, id not characterise either not having children or having children 'selfish'.

From the amount of fucked up adults who has awful childhoods due to parenting I would say it’s a good thing more women are able to not crumble under societal pressure.

I won’t have kids. I probably could on my own. But then I really had to sit down and work out why I wanted them and ultimately it was not for good reasons.

I wish more people would think about it one way or the other! I certainly wish my mother had.

I am 34 and dont want children. I am very nurturing as a person, just doesn't appeal to me, the whole pregnancy and birth thing as well as the worry of them inheriting my inflammatory bowel disease.
I do feel less as a person at times. Shouldn't be like that but it is. I am the only one I know in my age range who doesn't have kids.

I completely agree , I could have written this.