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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I don't inspire confidence in clients because of how I look... apparently.

224 replies

Getterfeck · 27/08/2019 18:35

NC’d for this because it’s probably outing and I know my boss’s wife uses mumsnet but I’ve been here a long time (but never screamed at a chapel or been a fan of pombears or cutted up pear).

I had a difficult meeting with a client today, I work in a service industry, agency based so spend a lot of my time in front of clients chatting about the performance of their activity and the returns on their investments etc. I’m good at my job, I’m the head of a team of 8 people who are also good at their jobs and we tick along fine.

The difficult conversation arose because the client is challenging and doesn’t listen to our advice. They’ve done something against our advice which has damaged their performance and the call was to discuss how we move forward on this. All good.

After the call, my boss said (completely out of the blue), ‘None of this would have happened if they trusted us in the first place’.

I agreed and went to leave but he told me to sit back down so I did. He then said ‘you’re the head of XXX department, they should be hanging on your every word not disregarding you completely’......

I agreed, can’t remember what I said but sort of said I’d work on building their trust, and he said ‘they’re not going to trust you, they’re old school and you don’t look right’

Confused

So I asked what he meant and he went bright red and he said ‘you’re not what they expect when they hear you’re head of XXX, you don’t inspire confidence’..

I’m 28 years old (admittedly young for the job), northern, female and fat. I’m a size 18 and I dress well for work and more importantly I know my shit. I get feedback from clients all the time expressing they’re impressed with my knowledge, feel like I and my team are experts etc. I don’t wear a lot of makeup or heels or anything on a normal day but for client meetings I’ll dress up a bit more etc.

Anyway, I wasn’t having that so I asked ‘exactly what bit of my appearance do you think doesn’t match expectations?’ And he then backpeddled and said that’s not what he meant.

I can’t shake it though. I KNOW exactly what he meant, he meant people don’t think I’m capable and judge me before I enter the room because I have the audacity to be both fat and a woman. It’s like you can be one or the other, never both.

I feel completely humiliated and really dejected. I’ve done well in my career, I’m the youngest woman with my job title in a large geographical area (recognised in an industry press publication recently) and I’ve worked bloody hard to get here. No one has handed me any of it and I’m here because I’m good at what I do. I know that, but I feel like I’m never ever going to be ‘as good’ as a man would be in my role, or as a woman who ‘looks right’ would be since a large part oft job is gaining the trust of clients and I just can’t do that.

Right now I want to quit and get a job doing the technical side of my role where I don’t need to speak to clients. Sad I think I know IBU, but I’ve no idea what to do to fix it Sad

OP posts:
Dylaninthemovies1 · 27/08/2019 19:57

You say his boss is your ally? Have a word with her about this discreetly asking for her opinion

BogglesGoggles · 27/08/2019 20:01

Do you look really young though. If you look like you are straight out of uni it doesn’t inspire confidence.

Justaboy · 27/08/2019 20:04

I just wonde if he's got a hidden agenda and for some reason wants you out of the way, no one else around he might want to promote at all?

Soreo · 27/08/2019 20:04

This is awful OP. Your boss is a sexist pig and so is annoyed at you instead of your sexist pig client.

Do NOT give up your role or these attitudes will continue to prevail. You've done incredibly well and it would be a sad waste to give it all up over one idiot and his opinion. I too would definitely raise a complaint if possible. He should not get away with comments like that. Flowers

Yabbers · 27/08/2019 20:07

He’s right, you’re not what they expect. Neither am I. But I leave them in no doubt I’m capable and in the end nobody cares.

Why do you think the pitch went wrong?

Winterlife · 27/08/2019 20:28

It's not that you are a woman and fat, it's that you are young.

I assume you work in some sort of money industry. I am in my late fifties. Frankly, I wouldn't trust a 28 year old to run my portfolio either. Your weight and gender would be irrelevant to me. Your youth would not be. I know it's ageism, but there's a reason David Mamet said "Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance".

Yabbers · 27/08/2019 20:30

but there's a reason David Mamet said "Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance".

I’ve just started a new job. I’m not in my twenties, but it has become quickly apparent I know way more than my boss who is at least 20 years my senior.

Getterfeck · 27/08/2019 20:33

It wasn’t a pitch it was just a meeting to discuss performance after it all went tits up (because they did something i told them not to).

My exact words to the client at the time we’re ‘if you do x, y will happen. Don’t do X’ (I have this in email form too because I followed the original call up), they responded that they thought it might happen, but thought the risk was minimal. The risk was very clearly not minimal (I forecasted it out, ~88% chance of y happening and told them this).

Client went ahead anyway and lost a butt ton of money. They called us this morning to ask WTF happened... I said ‘Y’.

Cue much hand wringing and finger pointing in all sorts of directions until they landed on us. Originally they were trying to say we had advised them to do the wrong thing, but I sent them the email where I very clearly outlined why Y was a bloody stupid idea and the potential gain was massively dwarfed by the more likely loss. It was crystal clear.

Couple of hours later we got on this call to discuss moving forward and it was after that call that my boss informed me I don’t inspire confidence Hmm

Other than directly telling you you’re doing something fucking stupid, giving you the forecasted data to prove it and restating you’re risking a lot for very little, I don’t know what else I could have done.

I do feel though that if my boss had said it and not me, despite the fact he’s not an expert in my field and has no hands on experience, they’d have listened. THAT’S why I think I need to get out of client facing work, there is just a fact that my age/ gender/ whatever means that you can have next to no practical experience and still be better at my job than me.

OP posts:
Getterfeck · 27/08/2019 20:34

Industry isn’t money, it’s tech.

OP posts:
BBBear · 27/08/2019 20:35

Or the client is just looking for someone to blame

Ibelieveinyou · 27/08/2019 20:35

Op, you’ve mentioned that his boss is a real ally to you, could you approach her? Maybe not in an official complaints kind of way, but in an I’m looking for advice as to how to proceed with this sort of criticism? Has she ever come up against this (I’m sure she has) and how did she deal with it. It highlights to her that he is an absolute knob, confirms to her that you want to continue to progress in the industry and take your role very seriously and flatters her in a sort of I look up to you for advice/mentor kind of way? I definitely wouldn’t change my role if I were you, you have no idea why the customer apparently lacks confidence. It could just be a clash in personality!

HermioneWeasley · 27/08/2019 20:37

Firstly, congratulations on your career.

Do not take this up with HR. He was clumsy, he knows he was out of order, let it lie.

The truth is, you’re not the classic stereotype of your role. That probably means you’re even better than you think because you’ve succeeded despite it.

Carry on doing what you are good at and enjoy, and as you build your profile and reputation, it will make you even more distinctive and stand out, but you’re going to have to accept you’re not for everyone, and that’s FINE.

I speak from experience.

BigFatLiar · 27/08/2019 20:38

I don't know if your boss is a misogynist sexist pig as many say (often rolled out as standard saying on anything that is unpleasant about a woman) maybe he is maybe he isn't.

What would you have wanted him to say following the meeting? That went well? Never mind there's always tomorrow? You say he went red so he was obviously embarrassed at having to tell you it was probably down to the clients expectations of who you were. Thats rough but it will always happen, Just now it may be because you're young but old people also have problems. People with disabilities have the same issue. Most of your clients seem to be impressed with you its up to you to impress. You could look for another job but they too will have clients stuck in the past or with odd expectations so you may face the same issue. Apply for a post with a company that only takes 'nice' clients. Ask the boss to only let you work with pleasant clients. Or be impressive and change the clients views.

doadeer · 27/08/2019 20:40

Are your clients a different industry? I work in tech too and most of the companies I've worked at the offices are 80% under 35. To those saying they wouldn't trust someone young.... Most of the managers I've had have been late twenties / early thirties. It's the tech industry.

YouLookGood · 27/08/2019 20:40

Do you think your boss might have been being racist? (As you mention most in the industry are white males). Is this something you want to take further with HR if so? He shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it but I appreciate it might be easier said than done.

How long have you been in the role? Is it over the two years needed for greater job security?

Winterlife · 27/08/2019 20:41

I’ve just started a new job. I’m not in my twenties, but it has become quickly apparent I know way more than my boss who is at least 20 years my senior.

Well of course you will find people in senior positions who haven't kept up. But don't discount experience.

If you are as smart as you believe you are, what you will learn, with time, is that knowledge alone almost never leads to success. Emotional intelligence (which women generally are better at), and even more, the ability to bring in clients and retain clients in any industry that is client driven is what leads to success.

Industry isn’t money, it’s tech.

Same difference. I'd still have more confidence in someone around, say, 40, just because they will have seen more than you have. I post that as someone who has a brilliant son in a tech field.

theemmadilemma · 27/08/2019 20:42

Don't back down. Don't.

Go back and ask him to formulate what exactly 'within your role' he feels you could do more to inspire confidence or is there another issue you are unaware of.

I've seen this irl. Bold it out. It sounds like you do a great job. Keep doing that and ride this confidence slip out.

Winterlife · 27/08/2019 20:43

To those saying they wouldn't trust someone young.

It doesn't matter, though. OP can't change her youth, and most older clients do feel comfortable with someone older. It's not really something OP can change.

PinkyPrincessy · 27/08/2019 20:44

I just want to say that I’m so sorry this has happened to you x

lasttimeround · 27/08/2019 20:44

Dont slink off in the face of misogyny. Its always there. You're well backed up by your email. Sounds like you are doing phenomenal work. You'll get older and some of those stupid attitudes will go away as you age. The rest of it. Just keep going. Its unfair but its bloody everywhere

Getterfeck · 27/08/2019 20:44

My boss’s boss is a total role model to me. She progressed through the ranks as a woman in computing in the 80’s.. she’s absolutely brilliant Grin

She impressed me the first time I met her by ushering me into her office, my boss tried to follow us (he was trying to keep me a bit distant from her and it had been obvious) and she actually shut the door on him as he attempted to follow me in Grin

She takes absolutely no shit from anyone and despite having not been hands on for 10 years, she’s kept her knowledge bang up to date.

I think chatting to her would actually be really useful, maybe framing it on tips/ advice how to command respect from clients. She’s the type of person who fills a room (not the same way I do Wink) when she enters and when you talk to her, she gives you her absolute full attention. Clients adore her because they don’t expect her to know her technical stuff but she absolutely does.

I need her ‘presence’, I think that’s what I just don’t have?

OP posts:
Winterlife · 27/08/2019 20:45

I agree with the OP above about not letting this affect your confidence. If you know you are doing a good job, the lack of confidence of a client here and there shouldn't matter.

fiorentina · 27/08/2019 20:46

Anecdotally I can say from experiencing listening to both males and females in the workplace that people can view larger colleagues (of either gender) as slow, less dynamic and lazy. I’m absolutely not saying this is right but unfortunately this attitude has certainly been fairly common in my male dominated industry.

64sNewName · 27/08/2019 20:47

You sound so great OP.

That is all I have to offer 👍

fiorentina · 27/08/2019 20:47

Sorry pressed post too soon.

I hope you can get this resolved, find a mentor who can perhaps help you if that maybe would benefit you and put the comments behind you. You sound an asset to your business, they should be pleased to have you!