I don't inspire confidence in clients because of how I look... apparently.

[Getterfeck]

NC’d for this because it’s probably outing and I know my boss’s wife uses mumsnet but I’ve been here a long time (but never screamed at a chapel or been a fan of pombears or cutted up pear).

I had a difficult meeting with a client today, I work in a service industry, agency based so spend a lot of my time in front of clients chatting about the performance of their activity and the returns on their investments etc. I’m good at my job, I’m the head of a team of 8 people who are also good at their jobs and we tick along fine.

The difficult conversation arose because the client is challenging and doesn’t listen to our advice. They’ve done something against our advice which has damaged their performance and the call was to discuss how we move forward on this. All good.

After the call, my boss said (completely out of the blue), ‘None of this would have happened if they trusted us in the first place’.

I agreed and went to leave but he told me to sit back down so I did. He then said ‘you’re the head of XXX department, they should be hanging on your every word not disregarding you completely’......

I agreed, can’t remember what I said but sort of said I’d work on building their trust, and he said ‘they’re not going to trust you, they’re old school and you don’t look right’

So I asked what he meant and he went bright red and he said ‘you’re not what they expect when they hear you’re head of XXX, you don’t inspire confidence’..

I’m 28 years old (admittedly young for the job), northern, female and fat. I’m a size 18 and I dress well for work and more importantly I know my shit. I get feedback from clients all the time expressing they’re impressed with my knowledge, feel like I and my team are experts etc. I don’t wear a lot of makeup or heels or anything on a normal day but for client meetings I’ll dress up a bit more etc.

Anyway, I wasn’t having that so I asked ‘exactly what bit of my appearance do you think doesn’t match expectations?’ And he then backpeddled and said that’s not what he meant.

I can’t shake it though. I KNOW exactly what he meant, he meant people don’t think I’m capable and judge me before I enter the room because I have the audacity to be both fat and a woman. It’s like you can be one or the other, never both.

I feel completely humiliated and really dejected. I’ve done well in my career, I’m the youngest woman with my job title in a large geographical area (recognised in an industry press publication recently) and I’ve worked bloody hard to get here. No one has handed me any of it and I’m here because I’m good at what I do. I know that, but I feel like I’m never ever going to be ‘as good’ as a man would be in my role, or as a woman who ‘looks right’ would be since a large part oft job is gaining the trust of clients and I just can’t do that.

Right now I want to quit and get a job doing the technical side of my role where I don’t need to speak to clients. I think I know IBU, but I’ve no idea what to do to fix it

It may well have been age or gender he was referring to. Most people in my job at early 40’s, white and Male. They all have the same slightly slick hairstyle and wear the same jeans and shirt combo. Should have asked him if I need to wear a shirt

He’s not a bad person and a pretty good boss. I realised early on he’s the type that respects you if you stand your ground and loses respect quickly if you don’t challenge him.

It’s ironic, because I actually think his particular brand of masculinity holds him back. His boss is female and she’s a real ally to me. She thinks he’s pig headed and arrogant which is probably what he thinks about me

So it may be disheartening and completely unfair but it may be a reflection of the reality of work.

Thank God Rosa Parks and the many other humans who have challenged prejudiced bullshit didn’t buy into your ‘reality’ of work crap. It is because of them that our mountains are a little easier to climb.

You sound totally together, on top of your job and generally awesome.

Your boss sounds like a monumental bellend. Ignore him and continue on as normal (but only once you’ve written this all down and presented it to HR).

Sorry you’ve had a shit day.

I know easier said than done but you can't let this dent your confidence, you wouldn't be where you were if you werent absolutely kick ass. You sound amazing and id love to work with you.

In my experience "old school" is code for sexist, old fashioned and outdated - your business shouldn't pander to this nonsense. The only way it will change is if you keep delivering and being amazing at your job.

And it's total bullshit that they didn't take your recommendations and that's the fault of your appearance! I think this tells you a lot about your company culture. They should be pushing back to the client reinforcing they went against your advice.

Please don't let this affect your self worth. I know it must have been awful but you've got to power on.... Otherwise nothing will change for the next generation coming up. I bet you are very inspiring to lots of young women in the company x

I agree that there's no point taking it to HR, their job is to manage the resource of people for the benefit of the company. If it's not a pattern of ongoing issues with your boss then there is nothing to be gained by you in involving them.

I would however take it up with your boss again. Send him an email following up from your meeting earlier. Quote what he said (use quotation marks) and request clarification as you're still not sure what was meant by his statement and what action you are he us proposing you take as a result. Reference that trust is not an issue with your other clients so you would appreciate a clarification of his comments and some suggested actions on how to progress this with this client.

He will know you are putting his comments into writing but will likely just be relieved that no one else has been cc'd. If he asks for a chat about it, follow that chat up with an email outlining the contents of that conversation. Forward that chain and any replies from him to your personal email address. You may never need this information but it's always good to have the option in case this becomes a pattern of him being shit with you.

To quote a PP, do not let this insipid little toad dent your confidence. You are doing a great job and rightly deserve your role. Oh and if his wife is reading this tell your DH to stop being such a jackass.

I think it’s time you approached the competition...

What an absolute twat.

You sound awesome.
It sounds like he was looking for an excuse and decided you must be the reason, then realised how absolutely unprofessional and untrue that was.
Hold your head up.

OP you sound fabulous.

I’m in a client facing role and similarly have to give clients difficult advice. I’m also bloody good at my job However I know people don’t always take me seriously because I look younger than I am (which is already younger than my C-suite clients) and I’m a woman.

I’m a size 8 - which I’m only chucking in there to say that no matter your size someone will take it upon themselves to underestimate you.

My advice would be to find someone else in the company who you respect to discuss what you can do to build trust - you acknowledge this has been a challenge with this client, so own that and work through some strategies which you have agency over. I’d then speak to your boss later and say that you’ve taken on board his feedback about building trust, these are your areas for development. If appropriate and you want to you could then raise that you were taken aback by his comment about how you looked. Non confrontational, solutions focused on the business issue, but letting him know it’s not ok.

Plain old sexism. Your boss is embarrassed because he realised that's what the issue is. And he may be right that the client is being sexist (or 'old school' cringe )

Well done for calling him on it professionally. You have done your job well. It's hard. But please don't let it hold you back. Rant away here instead!

May I add to your being fat and a woman. I'll add in your young. Heaven forbid a woman be successful at a young age based on her abilities not 'catching some old bloke's eye'.

I wonder if he'll think about this when you're his boss

In my experience "old school" is code for sexist, old fashioned and outdated - your business shouldn't pander to this nonsense

This

I agree that you should follow up in writing summarising the conversation and the date etc 'expressing concern' about his comments and asking for further clarification.

Personally I wouldn't speculate to him about what you thought he meant or ask him if there is anything you need to do to improve. I suggest you reply along the lines that Haffdonga has suggested...just put the ball in his court and let him explain what he meant.

As others have pointed out this will start a paper trail just in case the matter escalates. Hopefully it won't but you may choose to get your ducks in order in case you do need to take it further in future. How was your last appraisal & did it highlight any concerns or was it all good? Any recent positive feedback from managers or clients which could come in handy?

Sounds like some diversity training is needed, and some rock solid backup. On the clients side too.

What a dickhead. If he didn't think you were fit for the role then he would have raised it before & you wouldn't be there. I'd tell him that & ask for an apology.

I think a discrete word with his boss would be sensible. He needs to seriously re-evaluate how he phrases himself and how he perceives you, particularly when you seem to have repeatedly demonstrated your competence whilst he has repeatedly overlooked you for appropriate projects suited to your skill set.

Alternatively, ask for a meeting with him and her. You aren’t raising a grievance, just want to query the above plus his comments re client being old school and you therefore not being taken seriously.

I’m sorry that happened to you. Similar has happened to me more than once in a face doesn’t fit capacity and it’s so humiliating and hurtful.
Your boss is a cunt and karma is a bitch x

Sorry this has happened and you feel bad
In my experience people who think or say things like this feel inadequate and make themselves feel better by focusing on perceived shortfalls and using them to console themselves that you aren’t as good as you seem.
Or they have out dated stereotypical views which eventually mean they get left behind
Or they’re nobs of the world
Whatever - you sound like you are doing great. Keep going and use this to push yourself on. Best revenge is to keep rising

He’s not a bad person and a pretty good boss. I realised early on he’s the type that respects you if you stand your ground and loses respect quickly if you don’t challenge him.

He's not a good boss. He is a certain type of old fashioned boss. And I wonder how many people he is putting off by his old fashioned and totally lacking in diversity values.

Yes on the whole you can "take it" and "give as good as you get" but ultimately that could mean that in a few years it is you who is receiving complaints about your bullying - because you've learnt to much from people like him.

The client was entitled to ignore the OP’s advice and the fact that it cost them, is confirmation of their poor judgment. Sometimes you can’t protect clients from their own worst instincts. All you can do is strategise on getting them back on track.

Your boss was not clumsy, he was lazy and didn’t have enough skill or intelligence to challenge your clients on their poor choices. He should be supporting you and them by working towards a resolution. The line between evaluating and finger pointing isn’t thin.

He's a dickhead and its utterly dickish that anyone would think or say that you don't 'look the part' because you're female/young/fat/northern/whatever.

However, people do think this. Sorry. It's wrong and shit. But you have been told this by someone who wants his company, via your performance, to do well.

So you can say 'fuck him' and change your role to something more technical, which would be fairly tragic considering how good you are at it. You can expect that to give you a better career path therefore more likely therefore more choices in life. So stick with it.

I would like to present the argument that you could take what he has said as ethically wrong but factually correct. You have found this out when you are 28; so feasibly have as much as another 40 years career ahead of you. That could be limited by how you present physically.

You could change some aspects of it. You shouldn't have to, but you could.

You could lose some weight, dress more 'TM Lewins' (or whatever), learn how to put on the 'corporate look' make up wise. You could even soften your accent to meet people's expectations.

You shouldn't have to do this. I am not necessarily saying you should. But you could; and it may be that this bloke has told you something now that you may never have known, and that would have always held you back.

It's shit.

'there's no point taking it to HR, their job is to manage the resource of people for the benefit of the company' - would like to point out that a professional HR department will be concerned about ensuring that employees are treated fairly, apart from anything else if employees perceive they are badly treated it will destroy morale and the company will lose all their good people.

HR's job is to manage risk to the organisation - and sexism against employees is specifically illegal and exposes the company to risk.

I agree that it is probably not necessary to involve them yet...but in case you do in future, if they are any good at all they should take it seriously.

I don’t have any hugely helpful advice on addressing this internally but please don’t listen to him! I would be delighted to have a young female financial adviser who actually listened to my views rather than a middle aged guy in a suit that continually interrupts me and refuses to take my views seriously (speaking from experience...) Screw that guy, the demographic of your company’s client base is no doubt already changing and will continue to do so over the coming years - sometimes your approach will play well with people and sometimes it won’t, but that will be for circumstances completely outside of your control and I’ve no doubt that it’s the same for him. As clients diversify they expect their advisors to reflect that. I’m really sorry he said that to you but well done for pushing him to “explain” at the time and I truly wouldn’t give it another moment’s thought unless you do decide to raise it more formally. Your success will ultimately speak for itself.

I presume that you are clean, hair washed and styled, you don’t have bad breath, stink of fags or booze ?
NO
Well he can do one, unfortunately I have had the pleasure of a boss that was none of the above, Men still get away with so much, report his comments and go for his job when it comes up if not before
Good luck. You are brilliant xx

I’m a size 16/18 too.

But I don’t think that’s the issue. I suspect it’s more your youth and the fact that you’re female tbh