I don't inspire confidence in clients because of how I look... apparently.

[Getterfeck]

NC’d for this because it’s probably outing and I know my boss’s wife uses mumsnet but I’ve been here a long time (but never screamed at a chapel or been a fan of pombears or cutted up pear).

I had a difficult meeting with a client today, I work in a service industry, agency based so spend a lot of my time in front of clients chatting about the performance of their activity and the returns on their investments etc. I’m good at my job, I’m the head of a team of 8 people who are also good at their jobs and we tick along fine.

The difficult conversation arose because the client is challenging and doesn’t listen to our advice. They’ve done something against our advice which has damaged their performance and the call was to discuss how we move forward on this. All good.

After the call, my boss said (completely out of the blue), ‘None of this would have happened if they trusted us in the first place’.

I agreed and went to leave but he told me to sit back down so I did. He then said ‘you’re the head of XXX department, they should be hanging on your every word not disregarding you completely’......

I agreed, can’t remember what I said but sort of said I’d work on building their trust, and he said ‘they’re not going to trust you, they’re old school and you don’t look right’

So I asked what he meant and he went bright red and he said ‘you’re not what they expect when they hear you’re head of XXX, you don’t inspire confidence’..

I’m 28 years old (admittedly young for the job), northern, female and fat. I’m a size 18 and I dress well for work and more importantly I know my shit. I get feedback from clients all the time expressing they’re impressed with my knowledge, feel like I and my team are experts etc. I don’t wear a lot of makeup or heels or anything on a normal day but for client meetings I’ll dress up a bit more etc.

Anyway, I wasn’t having that so I asked ‘exactly what bit of my appearance do you think doesn’t match expectations?’ And he then backpeddled and said that’s not what he meant.

I can’t shake it though. I KNOW exactly what he meant, he meant people don’t think I’m capable and judge me before I enter the room because I have the audacity to be both fat and a woman. It’s like you can be one or the other, never both.

I feel completely humiliated and really dejected. I’ve done well in my career, I’m the youngest woman with my job title in a large geographical area (recognised in an industry press publication recently) and I’ve worked bloody hard to get here. No one has handed me any of it and I’m here because I’m good at what I do. I know that, but I feel like I’m never ever going to be ‘as good’ as a man would be in my role, or as a woman who ‘looks right’ would be since a large part oft job is gaining the trust of clients and I just can’t do that.

Right now I want to quit and get a job doing the technical side of my role where I don’t need to speak to clients. I think I know IBU, but I’ve no idea what to do to fix it

I’m a lot older than you (52). Professional job. Highly specialised. I’m a size 16/18. Well groomed but not at all glamorous (whatever that is really). Many of my women colleagues are much slimmer than I. I have no doubt that a few people will reject my services because of how I look. But most people see beyond that. Like you I am good at what I do. It does sound to me that this is a bit of a one off. The client is a dick. There are loads of them unfortunately. Rejoice in what you are and what you have achieved.

Don’t want to say what part of the country because I mentioned my role as the youngest etc, could be outing to mention where. Safe to say though that here, being northern definitely doesn’t help.

No worries about comments about my weight, I’m very happily married to a man who loves me and all 17st of me ran a 10k on Saturday, then ate a MASSIVE pie I’m healthy as a horse.

We’re a massive international company and we have a big HR department. I’m not keen on taking it to then to be honest, that feels like an escalation that’s not needed since I got the impression he regretted what he said. I kind of need a way to either move passed this or whether, honestly, you feel I really should change roles.

Before anyone suggests it, no, I’m not going to lose weight for a job.

He is one arsehole and I suspect has no grounds at all for suspecting the client thinks this.

Please do not give up your career for one asshat. Or have any doubts about it.

Hang on, this is because of one specific client?

Everywhere has at least one, probably several, client(s) who are challenging and can result in problems or friction regardless of who is involved or how they look.

Some people are just awkward and become difficult because it makes them feel superior, some people just won't tolerate things being done other than in very specific ways, some people have set ideas of what they think you should do for them even though it's not possible... There are loads of reasons for the odd challenging client relationship. Your boss was really unfair.

You sound like you're bloody brilliant at your job, take that brilliance elsewhere, and mention why in your exit interview.

I feel for you as it is very tough. I spent many years in a client facing role in a male dominated industry. Like you I was good at my job and clients liked me. However I know I never looked quite right and was never as smartly dressed as I could have been as I was also over weight. Although I did quite well in the role and made reasonable money, I was passed over for promotion many times. I know how I looked had a bearing on this.

OP, Please ignore all those people on here screaming that you should contact HR to complain about your boss. That is ridiculous and unhelpful. You need to just take the criticism and try to prove him wrong.

Don’t quit! Just carry on doing what you’re doing so well.

Sexism, ageism and bias against overweight people: triple whammy! From both the client and your boss.

You're assuming he was talking about your size. It's quite possible he just meant that you're a young woman, which is of course also not ok but maybe less hurtful. It's not wrong to recognise that some bigoted clients might have concerns about taking advice from someone younger than average in the field. His mistake was to blurt out something so unhelpful and open to multiple interpretations- he should be supporting you in front of the client and working with you on ways to demonstrate your experience and talent.

He obviously knew he'd screwed up. I would go and talk to him about building client relationships etc. I wouldn't necessarily storm out of the door.

That's shit. But why are you assuming he's said what he did because of your weight? I would assume he means because you're young and maybe because you're female. You've said yourself you are young to be in the position you are.

I spent my 20s struggling to be taken seriously because I was younger than a lot of my colleagues. From what you're saying it sounds like an age thing rather than something about your physical appearance.

Maybe ask him on email to clarify exactly what he meant and say the words he used so you can start a paper trail.
Has the client said anything to your boss about you? Do you have an explanation as to why the didn't follow your advise?

These are wise words if you wanted to make any comment, as this way you give him opportunity to explain in a non-threatening way, and you might gain some more information about the clients decision in ignoring advice.

You can still go your own way, or pursue it further if you feel thats going to be valuable.

I would keep yourself a copy of anything you send.

Bearing in mind his apparent acknowledgement of having over stepped the mark, even this email could set the hairson his neck bristling.

If you quit or take another role, they’ve won. I would keep doing what you’re doing and prove to your boss & client how wrong they are.

Sadly he's only saying what almost everyone thinks if they're conscious of it or not.

Basically you're not a tall white man in his 50s.

Which always baffles me because I can't think of a more incompetent group of people then white man in their 50s.

If you can be bothered - and he sounds like an okay bloke - I would actually have a chat about him and say SSSEEEEEEE this is the kind of unconscious shit that women have to deal with. So what are WE going to do to change this?

Are you in London by any chance? Agencies told me I'd struggle to get work in investment banking as I was 'Northern'. When I did get work they said it was "because you're blonde". Investments office culture is so dated: very male & very old fashioned. As long as you're well presented (suit etc as they usually have dress code that stresses formal) I can't see the issue, he's just a product of that archaic culture. Ignore him, but start documenting in case it ever gets nasty.

I actually think you need to take this further. Your boss lacks confidence in your because he thinks the clients lack confidence in you, and his explanation for that is the way you look. It doesn’t matter whether he regrets saying it; he thinks it. How are you going to progress unless this thinking is challenged?

Have you got a Union? If so I would talk to them and get some advice about raising a grievance. At the very least I would log his comments somewhere in case his behaviour escalates and you want to raise a grievance in the future. He sounds like a bully who just wants someone to blame for the client not taking your advice. That really is not your fault. As you said you are good at your job. You gave the right advice if the client didn't take it up that's on him not you

Firstly, he's a dick.

Secondly, try to take something useful out of the conversation. Obviously you can't (and shouldn't) change who you are but you might be able to improve your persuasive skills to get the client to follow your advice.

Other than that it may well just be an obstinate client, I saw a talk by a slim capable man recently who described one client who wouldn't take his advice, with equally poor consequences, I am sure he would have passed the "old school" test but the client just didn't want to know.

We can't assume the why, but shes being blamed for the lack of trust. Which is wrong because there wasn't a constructive discussion around causes.

It could be that what you said to him has done the trick if he straightaway back-pedalled.
Twat. (him)

@Getterfeck if you don't want to escalate and you're on professional terms with him, in your next 1:1 could you perhaps raise it in a matter of fact way explaining how it made you feel as it was ambiguous. Could he explain what he meant as it needs addressing- whether it is something in your control (doubtful) or is it his own and others bias needs to be addressed?

Another one here who thinks he was referring to you being female, not your size.

I kind of do want to challenge him on his bias bullshit, because there’s been a few occasions where he’s overlooked me for a project and I’ve had to pull rank to get a look in. There was a new business pitch a while ago where he tried to take a guy who used to do my specialism but branches out and was no longer a specialist. I Was having precisely none of that so challenged him directly to ask why he wasn’t taking me. He fobbed me off so I escalated it to his boss. 2 days later I was in the pitch so I assume she pulled him up on that.

I could go in house instead of agency. No clients, still a specialist. I just feel like no matter what I do, I’m always going to come up against people who will treat me like a fat woman instead of a person.

To the poster who said people treat you completely differently: I KNOW. I lost 7st for my wedding (MASSIVE mistake) and it’s phenomenal how much politer people are to you.

Don't take it to HR now. I don't think that's the smart thing to do.

Keep it in your back pocket. Next time there is a promotion or something else you want, you can use it to your advantage. He knows he's said the wrong thing and will be worried about you taking this higher up. If you don't do anything with it now he'll have to keep you happy in the future.

My (very) senior manager in my last job was like you. Bloody good at her job, immaculately turned out, and about a size 18. The only two of those three things that matter are the first two. Your boss is a dick. Your size has bugger all to do with how you do your job.

Maybe ask him on email to clarify exactly what he meant and say the words he used so you can start a paper trail.

I agree with this. Angle it not as an accusation of him but practically – you need to hear what it is about you that this 'old school' client doesn't listen to so you are fully informed.

And you sound utterly brilliant.

Fuck the lot of them