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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I don't inspire confidence in clients because of how I look... apparently.

224 replies

Getterfeck · 27/08/2019 18:35

NC’d for this because it’s probably outing and I know my boss’s wife uses mumsnet but I’ve been here a long time (but never screamed at a chapel or been a fan of pombears or cutted up pear).

I had a difficult meeting with a client today, I work in a service industry, agency based so spend a lot of my time in front of clients chatting about the performance of their activity and the returns on their investments etc. I’m good at my job, I’m the head of a team of 8 people who are also good at their jobs and we tick along fine.

The difficult conversation arose because the client is challenging and doesn’t listen to our advice. They’ve done something against our advice which has damaged their performance and the call was to discuss how we move forward on this. All good.

After the call, my boss said (completely out of the blue), ‘None of this would have happened if they trusted us in the first place’.

I agreed and went to leave but he told me to sit back down so I did. He then said ‘you’re the head of XXX department, they should be hanging on your every word not disregarding you completely’......

I agreed, can’t remember what I said but sort of said I’d work on building their trust, and he said ‘they’re not going to trust you, they’re old school and you don’t look right’

Confused

So I asked what he meant and he went bright red and he said ‘you’re not what they expect when they hear you’re head of XXX, you don’t inspire confidence’..

I’m 28 years old (admittedly young for the job), northern, female and fat. I’m a size 18 and I dress well for work and more importantly I know my shit. I get feedback from clients all the time expressing they’re impressed with my knowledge, feel like I and my team are experts etc. I don’t wear a lot of makeup or heels or anything on a normal day but for client meetings I’ll dress up a bit more etc.

Anyway, I wasn’t having that so I asked ‘exactly what bit of my appearance do you think doesn’t match expectations?’ And he then backpeddled and said that’s not what he meant.

I can’t shake it though. I KNOW exactly what he meant, he meant people don’t think I’m capable and judge me before I enter the room because I have the audacity to be both fat and a woman. It’s like you can be one or the other, never both.

I feel completely humiliated and really dejected. I’ve done well in my career, I’m the youngest woman with my job title in a large geographical area (recognised in an industry press publication recently) and I’ve worked bloody hard to get here. No one has handed me any of it and I’m here because I’m good at what I do. I know that, but I feel like I’m never ever going to be ‘as good’ as a man would be in my role, or as a woman who ‘looks right’ would be since a large part oft job is gaining the trust of clients and I just can’t do that.

Right now I want to quit and get a job doing the technical side of my role where I don’t need to speak to clients. Sad I think I know IBU, but I’ve no idea what to do to fix it Sad

OP posts:
Divebar · 27/08/2019 19:14

Hey OP you sound great. I’m a size 16/18 and work with lots of people who are a lot more senior to me in rank. If I had that comment I would have assumed they were saying I was not formally dressed enough, I wouldn’t have thought weight. ( it wouldn’t enter my head). The only difference is I’m 49 and have been in my organisation 20 years which gives me a certain credibility. I think people will probably be more surprised about your age rather than weight if I’m being honest. It may be your client is prejudiced about any number of factors including sex, age, accent etc. You’ve got to gather up your internal resources at this point and soldier on. You can’t let this knock your confidence. I personally wouldn’t go to HR...I might have a word with my boss and say something along the lines of “ you know that client is a dickhead and incidentally you know you were out of line with that comment about me”...... however that would very much be dependent on your relationship with your boss and their capacity to take blunt feedback. I work in a very robust environment and I’ve had bosses who could handle that and some who couldn’t. At the end of the day they promoted you to that position so you’ve obviously done something right and it’s therefore unfair to now turn around and blame a difficult client on you.

BigFatLiar · 27/08/2019 19:14

Sadly he may be right though. The client may well have gone down their own path because you didn't look what they expected. Some people have a view of what their advisor should look like and if they were expecting a middle aged man in a smart suit and a young woman turned up it may have been a bit of a shock. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong, the fact that you've got on well and most clients are comfortable simply means your company have some clients stuck in the past. Having worked in a service industry (FM & IT) I've seen lots of people getting on because they fit the image and have the gift of the gab but are in fact totally incompetent. So it may be disheartening and completely unfair but it may be a reflection of the reality of work.

PuzzledObserver · 27/08/2019 19:16

It’s possible that the issue arose with comments the client made to your boss. In which case, what your boss should have done is told the client that your appearance is irrelevant, you are employed for you skill and expertise, and if the client were to follow your advice they would discover exactly why your employer values you so highly and why you are team leader.

Unfortunately your boss decided to pander to the client’s prejudice. The feminist revolution is still a work in progress.

So, stuff them. Since you appear to have a public profile in your industry, are there other companies with similar roles to yours which might be recruiting? Move to a similar role with a competitor, for a nice fat (!) payrise, possibly taking some of the more sensible clients with you. That’ll teach your boss to stop pandering to prejudice.

LenoVintura · 27/08/2019 19:16

He’s projecting. It’s highly unlikely that the client has said anything to him about your appearance - this is what he thinks, not what they think. Two things need to happen: you as the client relationship lead need to have an open, adult conversation with the client about what happens when they don’t take your advice, and what actions you and they are going to take together to put things right. Second, you need to have a serious 1:1 with your boss about what he said, what he thinks you should be doing about it and then why you won’t be doing anything about it (because you can’t not be northern and you don’t need to be thin to do your job). You need to ask him to be honest and if you no longer have his, or the company’s confidence, you need to waste no more of your time and get another job.

AgentJohnson · 27/08/2019 19:17

I kind of need a way to either move passed this or whether, honestly, you feel I really should change roles.

Hell no! Strike while the irons hot, he’s on the back food which is the perfect time to educate him and shame him into apologising to you.

I know you’re not asking to be the poster girl for diversity but you hold a unique position where other women will look at your achievements and think, if she can put herself out there, why the hell not me!

Please, please, please don’t let this fool get you down. You have earned your right to be where you are. Don’t deprive your team or clients of your expertise and all round badassness.

ControversialFerret · 27/08/2019 19:17

Feel your pain.

Drop him an email: Following our conversation today I'd like some feedback on how and where you think I can improve my presentation skills.

Leave him to squirm. That way he can't accuse you of being 'sensitive' - because the email is neutral and professional. And he can't accuse you of not wanting to take the job seriously and get better - because you have specifically asked for feedback.

I've found that the most effective way to deal with men like this is to give them absolutely nowhere to go; be firm, polite and neutral. Don't let the insults slide past - challenge them as you have done. He'll soon learn that the easiest route to peace and quiet is to treat you as a professional and to let you get on with your job.

supersop60 · 27/08/2019 19:17

Your boss sounds like a dick.
When I started reading your OP, I thought you were going to say a client had complained because you had blue hair and were covered in tattoos. (or that you wore beige, brogues and had a pince-nez)
He was just looking for someone to blame in this particular case, and that is unacceptable to pick on you.
I'm inclined to agree with TinchyP

butteryellow · 27/08/2019 19:17

If he's not a bad chap, could it be that he's just recognised that this particular client is a sexist pig, but, as so many people do, the way he went about it was to blame you for not conforming to patriarchal expectations, rather than the client?

I'm a short, fat (bigger size than you) woman in a technical role, so I'm very used to sexist men discounting me, whereas non-sexist types find me intimidatingly competent (so I've been told in similarly tiddly circumstances). This is why I think it was your boss putting it across badly about the individual client, rather than clients as a whole and you in general.

LenoVintura · 27/08/2019 19:18

X post with puzzled

Applesandpears23 · 27/08/2019 19:18

As a fellow fat, female, professional who has run up the career ladder fast I say well done. You handled that really well and gave your boss something to think about. Depending on how important the client is and who on your team is suitable can anyone else help with the relationship? I think your boss was out of line. Don’t let it dent your confidence.

Boysey45 · 27/08/2019 19:19

I used to be friends with a woman who was on the board of directors for a massive company and also did business advice/ consultancy as well. Basically she could go into any business and tell them what to do to make it more profitable etc.
If a company didn't do what she advised she just let them go straight away. She was middle aged slim etc. She said that lots of clients dont listen and just want to do things their way. If a client, company or anyone doesn't want to know then theres not much you or anyone else can do.
I think your boss was being a pig basically.I'd complain personally.

bellainthemiddle · 27/08/2019 19:19

So sorry to read this OP - but try not to let it make you feel bad. He is clearly a twit and doesn't know any better. You should be proud of getting to such a high level in your workplace at such a young age!

Incidentally, one of my best friends at work would answer to exactly your description - and she's the best in our department and the first person our line manager turns to to do any particularly difficult or challenging meeting!

Brittany2019 · 27/08/2019 19:20

Do you have any idea why your client seemingly lacks confidence in you? It might not be related at all to what your boss said. Would it be appropriate in your position to contact your client directly about how you can «work more closely together in future» or some such bollocks to see if you can find out exactly what the client thinks? I wouldn’t be taking your boss’ view on the situation as gospel at all. He could be well wide of the mark.

Doyoumind · 27/08/2019 19:20

I experienced similar when I was younger but based on the fact that I was a woman. Now I have to deal with being an older, fatter woman and it's not easy at all. I've worked in what sounds like a similar industry to you my whole career.

I made a complaint and it got me nowhere. Sadly, I agree it's not the right thing for you to do. The truth is you will have to work twice as hard as the men and will still struggle. I don't really have any useful advice.

Londonmummy66 · 27/08/2019 19:21

Suggest he watches Dragons Den - neither Deborah Meaden or the other female Dragon are slim but I imagine that they both inspire confidence in investors etc.....

Hennysmommy · 27/08/2019 19:21

What a dick he is Angry dont you dare lose weight just for one persons insulting and discusting comment as long as your happy with your weight then thats what matters. Have it out with him regarding his vile comment make sure he knows its unacceptable. Do this in an email so you have a paper trail, log anything else that happens in the future.

Haffdonga · 27/08/2019 19:22

I understand why you might not want to take it to HR and make anything 'formal' but I do recommend putting something in writing to him so there's a paper trail should there be any need for it if he carries on disadvantaging/ bullying you.

I'd frame an email positively (bullshit about wanting to work effectively with him etc) but express concern and surprise that he identified your appearance as somehow affecting your performance. Point out your positive track record and relationships with other clients. Ask if he could clarify more specifically how he feels your appearance affects your work and say you are sure he must understand that his comments were upsetting.

Accept an apology and leave it at that unless he carries on with this crap (in which case your dated, calm and clear email will be your evidence that he is a dick.).

sluj · 27/08/2019 19:24

Embrace your wonderful Northern larger lady persona and take DI Viv Deering as your role model.😁

I don't inspire confidence in clients because of how I look... apparently.
OooErMissus · 27/08/2019 19:24

If you won't lose weight (totally fair enough), then why on earth would you consider changing roles??

It's way more important to stick to your guns about your rock solid confidence in what you do, and do well.

And I can't believe you're saying he's 'not a dick'.

Clearly he is a complete and utter dick. Confirmed by each additional post you make to this thread.

GirlInterrupted · 27/08/2019 19:24

I didn't read all the replies to you, just wanted to say. I think it doesn't matter what your weight is, it sounds like you are doing a kick ass job!

Don't let anybody tell you any different, take your (girl) power and rock it chick!

BTW, size 18 is not fat, it's curvy!

Own it girl!

SleepingStandingUp · 27/08/2019 19:26

Safe to say though that here, being northern definitely doesn’t help yeah sorry that's all I was really getting at. He deserves to s rew up his business

bamboocat · 27/08/2019 19:28

I'm not entirely sure that it's him you want to be having a go at. Yes, he's got a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease, but what he was trying to tell you is that the clients are 'old school'

In other words the clients are misogynistic sexist twats who look down on women in general (and on this occasion, you in particular). In years gone by when I was younger I regularly suffered in a similar way - couldn't get people to take me seriously. Not with me being blonde and from Essex.

Your boss worded what he said to you very clumsily, but the content of what he said about the client was probably right.

Applejack5 · 27/08/2019 19:29

Your boss is disgusting! Clearly your appearance is not an issue as you've done so well otherwise. What an absolute idiot and very unprofessional.

I would definitely go to HR. He can't go round making comments like that.

Flyingarcher · 27/08/2019 19:30

I think it is more down to the fact that you are young and female. I think youth is often a big barrier to being taken seriously. The fact that your boss has overlooked you previously is concerning and I would note down both these incidents and diarise any others. I think if there is another couple of instances then you should take it further.

WhoKnewBeefStew · 27/08/2019 19:30

I think I'd have another conversation with him about this and if he doesn't explain himself or apologise I'd be tempted to take this further and put in a formal complaint. I'd be fuming in your shoes!

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