How other people see British single mums

[louise5754]

I have a very close friend who was born and lived in Iraq until she was 29. She has4 kids with her husband.

Recently she said she can't believe how many women that live near her have children with at least 2 or more men. She said it must be a British thing. She said even if she divorced her husband she wouldn't have any more children.

My sister in law is from Russia and she's said similar.

No question really. I didn't answer my friend as I'd never thought about how other nationalities see us.

I do think the government make it easier / financially beneficial for couples to not stay together though.

And this whole conversation sets us back 50 years.
Let's not judge people for having had children with more than one man. It's no one elses business.

There absolutely is a stigma to abortion in the UK, I have never told anyone as whenever the subject has come up women I know all say "I could never do that/ would judge someone who has done that"

Not being British, I see British single mothers as the lucky recipients of a very generous welfare state, the percentage of whom not getting some kind of state assistance (tax credits, UC, housing allowance etc) is very low.

In a single mum and I don't even get child benefit !

Not being British, I see British single mothers as the lucky recipients of a very generous welfare state, the percentage of whom not getting some kind of state assistance (tax credits, UC, housing allowance etc) is very low.

This assistance is available to couples who earn beneath a threshold, so why wouldn’t it be available to single mothers earning below a certain amount!

@Handsoffmysweets having more children with the same father can be harmful to a child or it might be a good thing for them. Staying with your child’s father may be a good thing for your children or it could be an awful thing if there is a bad relationship. Same with having more children with a different father.

Having children with different men is not inherently bad for the children produced - it depends on the individuals involved. I think you are just showing your prejudice.

@judefromjersey another single parent here who gets no benefits including child benefits and is paying a big whack of tax for many other people’s benefits (including two parent families)

I don't find there's a stigma to abortion in the UK, more people who say 'I couldn't do that' and so have a child with someone who is less than ideal or sometimes even worse. I'd just men who father multiple children by different mothers just as much. I wonder who'd want to even date such a person, much less procreate with them and become baby mum no. X to him.

It was a personal choice for me to only have 2 DC with one person for lots of reasons, not one out of judgment or what other people may think though

He has 3 DC with 2 women (my ex)

I only know personally 2 extreme examples of this and unfortunately they have been quite judged. Each woman has 6 DC with 4 men. They are single parents and I have some empathy for them as I know they wanted things to work, but it is not what I would choose for my self or my own DC and I think it is very difficult for them - more so me even though we are all single parents I only have 1 ex to contend with, not 4. I would find it hard work having to manage all the different arrangements

Now now @zsazsajuju what happened to "live and let live"

I don't think it's the government, it's just our culture. As someone who has lived in quite a few countries around the world I would say that it certainly does seem more common for women to have children by more than one father in the UK than it is elsewhere. However I've never looked at any stats on this, so it could be that it's not true and it just comes across that way.

@goodfornothinggnome Absolutely. I don't know how this thread has been allowed to continue. Women disparaging other women.

Well a family requiring two houses is a waste of housing resources. Dad has a house and Mum has a house. That’s a fairly common scenario. It means there is less housing for others. Some single parents have amazing jobs. Others do the minimum to maximise benefits. Deliberately. They could do more but prefer not to.

Our young person birth rate has fallen. Quite dramatically. Parents are now not so welcoming to an early grandchild as they want to work. Also housing is very difficult to get due to housing shortages. Few incentives to be a single parent. If it is forced upon you, that’s very different and not a lifestyle that’s been chosen.

Women are not obliged to agree with each other!

I am very happily married with kids, We don’t consider divorce as a option available to us. I do judge women and men who have multiple kids with multiple partners

I do feel divorce is too easy, people no longer seem to want to work at marriage.

Yes YOU are very happily married - that’s great.

Not everyone is though, and believe me, the last thing most people want to do is get divorced. And it isn’t easy to get divorced. At all.

Oh also, regarding abortion - I haven't really seen this stigma. I have always felt that abortion is somewhat encouraged in the uk, especially if the mother is in a tight financial situation or has become pregnant by someone who we would deem to be an unfit father (no job, lack of interest, abusive etc). It seems to me that one must justify the decision to keep the child, rather than justify the decision to abort, and the less money the mother has the harder it is for her justify her decision not to abort to the general populace.

Perhaps this is just a generational difference, or maybe it depends what circles you move in? I no longer live in the UK but most of my friends there were child free couples in their 30s, and it always seemed to me that there was a lot of judgement of women with less money and unstable relationships keeping their babies. Sort of like social cleansing - as if babies are only for middle class people who behave properly, and anyone who doesn't fit that description has no business procreating.

Im pro choice but where i live im one of the few.

Its a North Essex town , expensive to live in but a lot of ppl on a low income.

Here abortion is frowned upon and a woman would be judged for having one yet also would be judged for having a child if she is on a low income.

Misogyny is rife here.

MN Land and RL Land come across as two completely different worlds to me though i do appreciate some of that is down to where i live.

As a non White Muslim British woman I hope I can say that that stereotypes exist and are perpetuated on both sides (as can be seen on this thread). It drives me mad on both sides too.
I work in social care and the '4x4' as it is known in UK which some social workers use off the record is becoming increasingly common, most often in deprived areas with lack of education, resources and parental aspiration. I'm not talking about women in stable relationships who have had unforeseen circs, more often that not it is ONS and IMO personally and professionally the resulting consequences can be dire, especially for the daughters who think it is normal to open your door to a man for the night, get pregnant and he is never to be seen again. It sends the message to the boys that their only role in parenting is providing the sperm.
Someone up thread said about schools being full of half siblings, in one local school there are 13 children believed to be fathered by the same man with 11 women. One family I dealt with the children are all from different fathers from different ethnicities. The mother only knows one of the fathers and is unsure as to what ethnicity exactly the others are. Her children struggle with their lack of 'life story', they are mixed race and people ask about their heritage and they don't have any answers. It also means the chances of becoming involved with domeone who is biologically related is much higher.

I am assuming that the Iraqi judgey woman is not referring to women who were married and had children to different fathers as that is something that happens in Iraq. I don't have any lived experience with Russian culture so can't comment there. This is nothing to do with democratic rights and everything to do with poor upbringing, low self esteem, lack of education. Many of the women I deal with in this situation have experienced DV and feel that having a baby gives them self worth.

I do agree with a pp that having a child needs to be given the gravity it merits. Too many people for a plethora of reasons bring a child into the world in very undesirable circumstances. Look at the step parenting board where some people are together a matter of months and are pregnant and blending families in very unfavourable conditions but children are expected to suck it up. More often than not the children are the ones paying the price.

I must add that I am very pro divorce, my DPs are divorced and it was always drummed into me that no marriage was better than an unhappy one!

There are more women in my generation (mid 30s) and younger who see having a baby with a man as a sign of commitment and that marriage is "just a piece of paper." If I'm being perfectly honest I think sometimes women get pregnant because they suspect a proposal is not forthcoming and they figure it's a alternate way to solidify the relationship. However, the facts don't bear this out. Unmarried couples with children are more likely to split than married couples with children.

So you have women who have had maybe 3-4 serious relationships in their adulthood - which isn't a lot really - but have a child in each of them and have never been married.

I would agree that this is more common in Western countries and I don't know that it's a good thing. I particularly worry about having different unrelated men in and out of children's lives. Again there are statistics showing higher rates of abuse in households with a step-parent.

I know a woman who has just had her 5th child from a 3rd father, I'm hoping for her sake and certainly for the children's that this one lasts. She's not uneducated, she's not poor seeking benefits, she just "loves babies" and so after a year or so is ready to have them with a partner. Then finds out down the line he's a bastard and the relationship ends.

I wouldn't want to grow up in a house where I had no dad, but my siblings had one. Or where it was clear that my step parent loved their biological children but not me (or loved me less). Or be in a household where my mum was trying to get child support from several different ex partners. To see some of my siblings get presents and days out with their dad or extended family, but others not have this experience.
If you can have children with several partners and prevent all of the above, then all power to you - crack on. But if you can't, then you need to put your children first and stop thinking you have a right to continually seek the perfect relationship.
To me this isn't about women's rights - I would support 100% your legal entitlement to do as you please. But it is about your children's rights to a happy childhood.

Hi the post wasn't about single mums or people on benefits or even women having 3 children with 3 men.

It was to discuss how other cultures see us British.

Sorry for any upset caused.

Well OP to answer your question every country/nation stereotypes.