To ask if those who want to leave the EU are happy to be personally worse off in order to do so

[Bearbehind]

Following lots of discussion on the subject, it’s clear that leaving the EU is based on something other than financial impact, however, even the government’s impact assessments make it clear that there will be a negative impact.

Would you still chose to leave if you knew it would make you personally financially worse off?

Doesn’t matter how much money you have if you can’t get hold of treatments for cancer etc

They didn’t wish ill on you though did they Christ.

They where giving a vote remain in Eu or leave Eu. Not wish ill on people vs wish health and happiness on others.

You want remain they want leave. Your remain could be by your own standards wishing ill on others.

You just sound deranged.

Ah now the racist comments. You are a walking remainer cliche.

And I'm not thick, I have a degree from a quite prestigious university (again, not boasting, just stating)

Nesssie then if you knew people that were living hand to mouth, parents not eating meals so their children went to bed with a stomach with some food in, would you still feel the same? Could it possibly be that because you aren't surrounded by families like that, you're immune to it?

There are plenty of situations where people would support something even if it makes them personally worse off.

I would prefer to pay more tax than have the educational budget cut - even though I have no children in state school education.

I feel the same way about Brexit. As it happens I don't think I will be worse off if/when we leave, but if I was, I would still support Brexit.

I know of small business that have been forced to close simply because they couldn't afford to make premises changes required by fatuous EU regulations for example. They would have been better off had we only had an economic union as originally planned rather than a political legislative union.

It doesn't follow everyone will be worse off. It's like anything - it will benefit some people more than others.

Every - indeed. And I hope people like that are at the back of the queue for whatever limited medication is available. If that means fatalities for leave voters, then tough. You got what you voted for

Nessie, but you have the funds to purchase assignments, dont you? So your degree is meaningless.

The cat. Yes they did. My life will be worse if Brexit happens. They have wished ill on me and mine by voting for something that will make my life worse.

I would be a hypocrite if I felt anything other than anger and ill will towards people like that.

Christ. I hope @MorningRichie was banned for that disgusting comment. @MNHQ ?

So I should caveat this by saying I actually voted remain, because on balance I thought that was the better option.

However, there are changes I would like to see in the UK which could in theory be achieved through EU exit and I would be happy to be personally worse off as a result.

As an example, I think that we now expect goods and services too cheaply and that large businesses enable this by driving down employment standards and exploiting their workers. They're often able to do this because there are a steady stream of EU migrants who are willing to work for low wages and low job security. I'd like to see this end (not necessarily by leaving the EU, but it is one possible route) and if that means I have to start paying more for things then personally I am happy to accept that.

(Having used the word again at 11.41.10)

@TheCatDidSay exactly. I firmly believe that I will be better off in a country not shackled by the EU. So technically those that voted remain have voted 'ill' on me. But that's not how the vote worked.,

@CitadelsofScience Absolutely that might have changed my vote. If I was in a different circumstance, then I might have given a different vote.
But I can't vote on the basis that if I was in a difference circumstance I would vote that way.
Because I'm not in that circumstance. My circumstance means that a Leave vote was the best for me, my family, my friends and my future children. And I accept that someone elses circumstance means that a Remain vote is the best.
That's why there was a vote, open to everyone of every circumstance, and the majority win. to make it as fair as possible.

(I used circumstance too much in that sorry)

I suppose I don't think it's fair that you should even be allowed to take away other people's rights, because you don't want them, and make them worse off, because you won't be, but that is the nature of voting. It is an inherantly selfish activity Brexit or otherwise, you are MEANT to vote for your own circurmstances and priorities, to a point.

That said, if the predictions come true and I am cut off from my European family, with my father unable to receive his cancer treatment, and my DP losing his financial job to Europe as his company are currently predicting, then I will think very badly of the people who brought it upon me against my wishes only to bear none of the brunt. I think I'd be entitled to that, same as any other aspect of politics.

What actual ill has been inflicted upon you morning?

So I should caveat this by saying I actually voted remain, because on balance I thought that was the better option.

However, there are changes I would like to see in the UK which could in theory be achieved through EU exit and I would be happy to be personally worse off as a result.

I'm pretty much in the same position.

I despair, though, while the two sides speak to each other the way they do on MN.

I firmly believe that I will be better off in a country not shackled by the EU. So technically those that voted remain have voted 'ill' on me. But that's not how the vote worked.

Will you be hungry? Homeless? Unemployed with no means of income?

If not, your comparison is irrelevant as the two situations aren't comparable.

And the use of the bolded I in your statement speaks volumes.

Nessie, but you have the funds to purchase assignments, dont you? So your degree is meaningless.

I think you've lost your marbles argument here, try a different tact and I'll happily debate with you.

Nesssie I'm not in those circumstances either but I'm socially aware enough to realise that others are. I couldn't good conscience make people already struggling, even worse off.

Some of those struggling are struggling because of the EU though. Look at the builders threads. They will be better off without unlimited immigration. Some poor and some rich are better off out just as there are those better off in.

unlimited immigration

We have limits to immigration that we don't use. A lot of what people blame the EU for in this country is the fault of our own government.

@InTheHeatofLisbon - @Halloumimuffin put it perfectly, voting is inherently a selfish act - you have to vote for what you believe will benefit you/your family/future.

open to everyone of every circumstance

No it fucking wasn't. Several million British people living in Europe were excluded from the vote though their lives are absolutely on the front line.

@Nesssie I do believe this to a degree - I use my vote to benefit myself, you have your own to benefit you. But I think it gets complicated when you consider things I find important that don't affect me right now such as care for the elderly, or schools/uni etc for children who can't vote.

@CitadelsofScience I think that's where our belief of Brexit differs, I don't think the impact will be as big as stated. There are many studies all predicting different outcomes, some state poverty, some state that there won't be much change.