To ask if those who want to leave the EU are happy to be personally worse off in order to do so

[Bearbehind]

Following lots of discussion on the subject, it’s clear that leaving the EU is based on something other than financial impact, however, even the government’s impact assessments make it clear that there will be a negative impact.

Would you still chose to leave if you knew it would make you personally financially worse off?

Cross-posted with RTB and a couple of others!

We had 6 whole posts before the first "thick shit" comment. It's like Groundhog day on here.

The pro-leave 'experts' predict that we'll be better off out, the pro-remain 'experts' predict that we'll be worse off out. What a surprise. Take your pick.

Leave or remain there are many other things that will affect the economy and some 'experts' reckon the world is in for another recession 'soon'. So, judging from the performance of 'experts' in predicting the last recession, as pointed out by our Own Dear Queen, it's probably anybody's guess.

With or without Brexit, I am dismayed at how this country has become. Yes we are over-populated and under resourced, but being in the EU has not been the cause of this.
Our household income is what many people might call ‘rich’...but after paying the huge amounts of tax we pay, it’s mediocre and we just about get by. The NHS is now a joke, I am still waiting for a referral for surgery nearly one year on, having waited 4 months for the result of a scan, 3 months for the initial appointment, and 2 cancellations the day before. And I refuse to pay privately for a service we already subscribe heavily to, and think it’s appaling we are expected to put up with it.
When I gave birth, I was surrounded by women from various global locations, all seemingly with numerous kids.. here, there and everywhere.
My child broke a limb in two places, and an ambulance was refused to the school where she lay, as they were too busy...
We have been looking at secondary schools recently, and are becoming even more dismayed by the places we are seeing..
Which probably explains why most of the people in our area are paying for that too..
It’s all a shambles. I’ve been born and bred in and around London, and I just despair with living here now. Sorry, but Brexit or not won’t change any of that.

And I think they're right. Brexit isn't going to make their lives worse.

I suspect it actually will

One person’s damage is another persons advantage. Exports and tourism have benefited from a lower pound. It’s never all one way is it?

We are net importers. And we have few natural resources we can exploit. And our attitudes to foreigners declining does not help improve tourism figures. Our economy is already dominated by service based industry not manufacturing. And where we make most money in goods its through highly skilled industries which add value to a raw material which we have already imported, so if the raw material is more expensive our margins are likely to be less. We also can not compete with many other labour markets because they can undercut us through lower standards of living and health and safety.

In terms of social well being, where those jobs in industry and where those jobs in leisure are located really do matter because shifts in the pound can increase inequality between areas which makes the problems that gave rise to Brexit, worse not better.

There is only ever going to be limited tourism opportunities in places like Wigan or Derby or Ellesmere Port compared to already more affluent areas like Oxford.

As it stands its already been noted that a fall in the value of the pound has NOT been offset by an increase in revenue through more exports.

Do please continue to explain how the pound falling further will help us, rather than oversimplification of a complex issue.

@Nesssie

Having £20 left over after bills is a dream to some folk. You have no experience of the actual hardship that people are forced into now.

Spoiler : its a little bit worse than losing a few pounds from the trust fund

The "are Tommie" reference is about Tommy Robinson, and the type of people who think he's wonderful.

Voting leave doesn't make you a bigot. Thinking Tommy Robinson is in any way does.

Is reasonable that should have said.

Brexit isn't going to make their lives worse.

They should read a bit of George Orwell. We've come a long way since the Road to Wigan Pier.

Yes I had to snort at the idea of having 'only' £20 left at the end of the week made you poor

Ah, I assumed your thread was genuine but I now see that, in your wisdom, you think you know better (despite all evidence to the contrary and the belief of the people who work with and live in these communities). I'll leave you to it.

ssd - Why is flag waving and Rule Britannia English nonsense? I love a bit of flag waving and Last Night At The Proms. 🇬🇧

Thanks for the explanation about ‘are Tommy’. I didn’t get the Tommy Robinson connection.

Blamesgartsonneighbours You are so, so wrong about the Road to Wigan Pier. A lot hasn’t changed at all in Wigan. Social mobility is shockingly low.

despite all evidence to the contrary and the belief of the people who work with and live in these communities

What evidence? That’s what I’d love to hear.

It’s fine to take a financial hit for a cause you believe in. It’s less fine to make a load of other people take that hit with you whether they want to or not.
And that is why I chortle when brexiteers claim to be democrats. What they are are people determined to enforce their own crappy view of things on everyone no matter what the cost.

I'm back but can see this thread has lost its way now so won't be answering any more questions, sorry.
I'm glad it lasted a few pages (except MorningRichie's valuable input ) as I think its good for both sides to hear each others opinions.

This time next year we will hopefully have some sort of idea what the future is going to be like, so we can revisit this thread then.

Of course social mobility is shit in Wigan, but kids aren't still dying of TB and rickets. Most people have indoor toilets and water from a tap.

are you for real Blames? Have you any idea how widespread child poverty is in some places? It is overly simplistic and naive to say that things are better now. Things are different, not better.

No-one knows what impact, if any, Brexit will have so it's pointless speculating. I know some remainers have a wish for the outcome to be doom and gloom financially and every other way but their crystal balls are cracked so like the rest of us shall just have to wait and see.

I am not wealthy, quite the reverse. I voted Leave, I still want to leave and will deal with whatever the future may bring, as and when it happens.

Pre referendum YouGov had 60% of Leave supporters saying that significant damage to the economy was a price worth paying for Brexit. If that figure has changed, my guess would be that it has grown.

Yes I do how. I still maintain that things are better, largely due to the post-war welfare state that is now being dismantled.

Have you actually been to the places you claim are now better Blame?

@RedToothBrush I won’t “explain how the pound containing to fall will help us” because that isn’t what I said.

I love how my gently pointing out that it wasn’t all bad has been totally recast as something entirely different and rebutted without it even happening.

@gghhh - I assume you’re referring to white Britons becoming a minority.

Interestingly, Brexit has already caused an increase in non-EU immigration. In other words, non-white, non-Christian immigration.

If non-white people bother you, then that’s another way in which Brexit was a spectacular own goal.