Is it a fact that all women are afraid of men?

[Fakenametodayhey]

I feel scared popping to the shop at night and my boyfriend doesn't get it. I would rather he go because I think he would be safer than me. I dont actually 'think' it but i feel it.
He thinks i am being lazy but i dont mind in the daytime.

I have spoken to a few women about this and the consensus seems to be that we all feel scared walking alone at night, in secluded areas or open ones, and will be on alert if they are alone and it's late.

I was always taught (through actions and words) that me and my sister were not safe to go alone (despite being older) but my brother was safe- even though he is considerably younger than us both.

I can go for a midnight walk down the canal with a male family member and feel completely safe, but when i have gone on a walk in the evening on a busy road alone or even with a female friend or family member (or even 2 or 3) i feel on edge. And generally they do too.

I have asked my boyfriend, male cousins, dad and my brother and they couldn't believe that we actually felt scared.
Im not the only one who holds their keys in their pocket like its a weapon- just incase.

So i guess my question is this- am i being unreasonable crossing the road/ avoiding going out at night etc? Or is it just a 'symptom' if being the 'weaker sex'?
No debate- me and my family are all small women and a man could easily- well, you know.

Also is it different if you are bigger/ stronger?

I'm well aware my son is more at risk of street violence than me, but let's be clear that this would be violence from other men. So the fact that my risk factors are less don't make me any less fearful about violence from men as a class.

That said, I don't think I'm scared exactly - it's more the mental load of additional risk assessments and imo men just don't get that at all. I remember being on the last train home on a Saturday night, busy and full of drunk men, I was playing a word puzzle on my phone and the guy sitting next to me twitched my phone out of my hand and passed it to 'Dave' to solve cos he was really good at word puzzles. DH's reaction was ' why did you let him take your phone?' - he just has no concept of the amount of adjustment women do to not inflame a situation. Of course I'm smiling at Dave and laughing along with him, and of course I fucking hate myself for doing it, but the priority at that time in that situation is to placate and calm.

If the same thing had happened to DH that would have been the best tactic for him too, statistically, but a man would NEVER take a phone from another man to 'help' them solve a puzzle.

"I was brought up to be cautious. Statistically, it's true that young men are more likely to get into a fight but if you are a small, timid woman, statistics don't come into it"

I think this sums up what I meant - Timidness.

I was never brought up to be told that women should be timid. Timidness is what I meant by victim mentality along with the ever increasing fear that something has to go wrong.

I know I'm going to be slated for this but I also think its tied up with increases in anxiety for irrelevant reasons.

Anxiety was not as much of a problem when we genuinely had to worry about our survival.

Its almost like some human brains needs to be afraid of something.

Re: 'victim mentality' - I think it's wrong to characterise rational fear and risk assessment as a victim mentality, but there is such a thing as an easy target.

I was an obvious target for bullying at school (I was frankly odd), but I was confident, obstinate and assertive enough to put a stop to it as soon as it arose. I had friends who had a hard time shaking it off because they were less so, and bullies have a good ability to know the 'size' of their opponents. My mum is a DV survivor and is preyed upon by the neighbouring bully. The one time he tried it on me he got seven kinds of shit back, and he's been studiously polite since.

There are all sorts of influences that play upon people. I was the youngest of four, and my sister and I would physically wrestle for fun, and my much older brother would hang me over the bannisters type horseplay, older sister would be a bit rougher with me when in a bad mood - essentially quite a scrappy childhood with no permanent physical harm.

My husband on the other hand is much gentler because HE was the much older brother, who knows how gentle you have to be with the tiny sibling who THINKS they're equal in the fight...

Statistically men are more likely to be assaulted by a stranger but generally people don't hold them responsible for what happens to them.

If a man is walking alone at night and he is assaulted, nobody will ask him what he was doing there or tell him he shouldn't have put himself at risk. However if a woman is alone at night and she is raped then people will question what she was doing there and ask why she put herself in a risky situation.

I think how people will react is the difference and also plays a part in why women tend to be more wary.

I personally don't think twice about walking to the shop or the gym or anywhere else at night. Neither does DP. However I am conscious of the fact that if something does happen to me whilst I am doing it that there will be a completely different reaction than there would be if something were to happen to DP.

How patronising and arrogant is @imoen.

It's funny how women can feel so differently about this. I have to say I've never been scared to go out walking at night etc. I've always been one to go for long walks in the countryside, in remote areas and feel very comfortable doing this. Maybe I'm naive or stupid but I always feel the odds of anything happening are very low. My only unpleasant experiences with men have usually been with men I know (or have at least spent time with over an evening and then they come on too strong). I've never been assaulted by a stranger when out walking and I don't know any woman who has. I do know several men who've been beaten up by strangers just for walking down the street so I do believe the stats that men are more likely to be victims of stranger attacks. I have a friend who gets very stressed walking even very short distances on her own at night. As far as I know she hasn't been attacked by a stranger but maybe she's keeping it to herself. She would often ask me to walk her home then I'd have to walk alone back to my house. Although I wasn't scared to do this she obviously believed it was risky yet was still happy to put her safety above mine!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

YES! You’ve hit the nail on the head with regards to additional mental load. I’ve got it for me and my 12 year old, and no I don’t think men do get it. Or very rarely so.

@JacquesHammer added to by the way society (and indeed people on this thread) hold women responsible for male violence, which all has to be factored in and accounted for. It's exhausting.

No-one blamed me when my flat got burgled, they sure as hell would have blamed me for my sexual assault.

@SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad

The majority of violent crimes are committed by men and the majority of perpetrators of domestic violence and abuse are also men, regardless of the sex of the victim.

I'm very sorry you were a victim but you even said yourself that you have one experience of being the victim of a troubled woman. The majority of women on the other hand will have been on the receiving end of threatening and intimidating behaviour from multiple men throughout their lives. Whether that's low-level sexual harassment such as catcalling or wolf whistling to the more extreme end of rape and domestic violence; chances are women have been dealing with predatory behaviour from shitty men constantly since even before puberty.

It's also worth keeping in mind that women have it drilled into them from an early age that they need to keep themselves safe and not put themselves in risky situations in a way in which men don't. I have lost count of the number of times a man has hurt a woman only to have people judging and questioning her behaviour; what was she wearing, she shouldn't have been there, she put herself at risk, women need to keep themselves safe, etc. It is constant and we know fine well that if something happens to us then there will be someone out there ready to put the blame on us.

Again, that's a key difference imo. Women risk asses more than men because we know fine well that society will judge us far more harshly than they would a man in the same situation. Sometimes it's just not worth the risk.

I am happy to go out alone at night and I'm not afraid of men in general day to day.

I do feel impacted by the deeply sexist society we live in and I'm frightened by the way some men think sometimes.

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

Absolutely.

Have you seen the thread about experiences of sexual behaviour from men?

Me (and others) we’re discussing our very young daughters getting sexually harassed. A male poster suggested some teen girls ask for it 🙄

I also don't really care about pissing men off or hurting their feelings.

If a man is creeping me out, making me feel uncomfortable or I just have a feeling of being unsafe then I'm getting out of there.

My personal safety is far more important than a blokes feelings.

@SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad - by all means. And firstly may I say how sorry I am that this happened to you. It's partly because of the gendered stereotypes - the same ones that teach women to be always kind and polite to males, or to 'let him down gently' - that lead to both domestic and sexual violence perpetrated against men to be so taboo that it's even more difficult for them to speak about it, report it, or to seek help. This is so wrong.

You mentioned the 1 in 3 figure of male domestic abuse victims (still meaning 2/3 of overall victims are women). In response (apologies for the essay) I'll quote a few stats myself if I may:

Four times as many women as men are killed by a current or former partner (ONS, 2001-2013)

In 2013-14, 93% of defendants in domestic violence court cases were male and 84% of victims were female (CPS Violence Against Women and Girls Crime Report, 2014)

In 2009-10, women were the victims of 73% of domestic violence incidents. In 81% of incidents, the offender was male (Home Office, 2011)

89% of all those who had experienced 4 or more incidents of domestic violence were women (Domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking: Findings from the British Crime Survey, Sylvia Walby and Jonathan Allen, 2004)

The intensity and severity of violence used by men is more extreme, men being more likely to use physical violence, threats, and harassment (Hester, M. Who Does What to Whom? Gender and Domestic Violence Perpetrators, 2009)

Although 1 in 6 men report experiencing violence from a female partner or ex-partner each year, women are:

-4 times as likely to experience the most serious and potentially lethal violence, such as threats, assault with a gun or knife, choking and sexual assault
-3 times more likely to report suffering a physical injury
-Twice as likely to report chronic on going assaults, defined as more than 10 separate incidents
-5 times as likely to report that they feared for their lives(Jaffe, P.G, Lemon N.K.D, Poisson, S.E, 2003)

I don't think any degree of number-crunching is required here. The above statistics speak for themselves.

And as regards sexual violence specifically, men's bodies are denser, stronger, and more easily able to overwhelm a woman. They also have the capacity to penetrate a woman's body. I'm a fit, tall, strong, reasonably athletic woman - not someone who appears as an easy victim - yet repelling a determined attacker wasn't a possibility for me. Nor did I say I completely distrusted all men. But in the light of the above, exercising caution and listening to your protective instincts is just plain common sense.

The person I know who's run into the most trouble is a broad 6'6" man. Apparently he's seen as a challenge. Not a violent bone in his body, yet other men seem to think he's fair game and literally attack him out of the blue.

We have a man problem, and the fact that some women and men are afraid of this is not the issue. Those of us who are nervy or intimidated when in a hypothetically unsafe situation (alone, late at night, etc) are the symptom of the disease that is male aggression.

I hadn’t realised it until I started to read this thread but you are right, I am afraid of men. I don’t let it govern my life but I am constantly aware of my personal safety and protecting myself from potentially dangerous ‘situations’ which actually means ‘men’ - I am not unconsciously guarding against another woman attacking me or assaulting me. It’s a sad thing that this is so much a part of my life that I have taken it for granted.

And I know it’s not just me We used to live at the end of a very long, quiet road that lead from a commuter railway station into a quite remote area that marked the divide between suburbia and countryside. DH would often be on a late train home and was very aware that if a lone woman was walking ahead of him she would often be anxiously looking over her shoulder at him or crossing the road to avoid him. It got to the point that he would sit on a wall to allow them to get well ahead of him before starting to walk home because he was so conscious that his mere presence as a man was frightening to them.

I don’t feel scared, but I do feel more aware when I’m alone I guess. For instance if I needed to go to the shop when dark I would probably be more cautious walking there if my husband wasn’t there, but I’d still go.

I have been sexually assaulted but it was by a work colleague, in the staff room in the middle of a daytime shift.

Perhaps the pp meant 'victim mentality' ie once you have been a victim of violence/sexual assault, you are (understandably) more wary and fearful? Not that it was your victim mentality that lead to you being attacked. That would be ridiculous.

It's ridiculous either way. Next ...

I would however be very wary of a strange man talking to me if I was alone, in a more vulnerable situation, such as walking in the evening, being in an empty train carriage etc

I am aware/wary, risk assess, but it rarely stops me

Growing up with 2 brothers has taught me some basic physical (play-) fighting skills. I have done self defence. I am 6ft

Still, against a gang or a knife I'd be nowhere, I realise that.

But I have always refused to live in fear, and have lived (and walked around alone, including at night) all over London, Glasgow, Bogota and Mexico city.

Also hailed street cabs in Mexico city, to be honest I am not sure what the fuck I was thinking there

But yes, generally, I am not fearful of men.

I reckon growing up with brothers, and being used to physical tussles, and knowing where to knee them if needed be has given me a (misplaced?) Sense of being able to handle myself

It's all about luck really though, isn't it? Anyone can be unlucky....

It's maybe the fight or flight response, a scary situation seems to generate more of a "fight" attitude in me, for whatever reason

No, I don't feel afraid at all — either of men or of walking alone late at tonight.

late at night

I'm very sorry you were a victim but you even said yourself that you have one experience of being the victim of a troubled woman. The majority of women on the other hand will have been on the receiving end of threatening and intimidating behaviour from multiple men throughout their lives. Whether that's low-level sexual harassment such as catcalling or wolf whistling to the more extreme end of rape and domestic violence; chances are women have been dealing with predatory behaviour from shitty men constantly since even before puberty Other than wolf whistling, and I never found it threatening or intimidating, I've never suffered from any of the behaviour you describe. I'm not sure what the statistics are but I do know other women who would say the same as me. I worked in an office in a factory when I was younger, young men working there got alot of harassment from older women. To be honest with you I think if the men had done to the same to young women, like me, they would have been sacked so I do think men can suffer from all the things women can, not all of them do.

I tend to look at cases individually, if a man is assaulted by a woman or another man that is wrong even if statistically there was less chance of that happening to him than to a woman. To write off a man's experience because it is less likely to happen is no more logical to me than saying a woman should cope better after an attack because she must have know it was more likely. Violence is never OK, the people who do it are criminals be they male or female, and the victim isn't to blame.

Afraid, no.

But aware that men are bigger and stronger than me, and that a non-profit negligible minority of them are prone to violent behaviour towards others, and to perpetrating sexual violence - yes. And aware that this minority don't conveniently come with the mark of Cain on their foreheads, so I can't tell just by looking at them which sort of man they are.

So when a man I don't know crosses the road to the same side as me after dark, or tries to engage me in unwanted conversation on public transport when we're in an otherwise empty carriage, etc, my mental state does tend to head straight to DefCon 3 because I have no way of knowing what their behaviour is leading up to, and experience tells me it could be leading somewhere very nasty indeed.

DS also fears getting intimate with women in case they turn round and falsely accuse him of sexual assault (or worse).

That's rape myth No 101. False accusations of rape are less common than false accusations of other crimes.

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad You've listed the stats for violent crime, what about sexual crime? What % of sexual crimes are perpetuated by men, and what percentage of victims are female? What percent of sexual crime is unreported and what percentage of rape isn't prosecuted? Two drunk men have a fight outside a pub, that's likely to be included in your stats. But how many of the sexual assaults that occurred in the same pub on the same evening will make it to the official stats? Probably none. I bet pretty much every woman on this thread will have experienced an unwanted grope (or worse) or the kind of man who says 'what are you two lovely ladies doing here all alone?' then calls you 'Fuckin Lezzas' because you point out you're not alone, you're together. I actually don't know any woman who has reported sexual assault (I know someone who told the police about a flasher but that was 30 years ago).

Also, victim blaming, we've seen a bit of that on this thread. We all are brought up in a world that tells women if they are sexually assaulted or raped it's their own fault for wearing the wrong clothes, or getting drunk, or going to the wrong party, or staying out too late, or not fighting back. It's no wonder we all have our magic talismans we cling to convinced they will stop us being the next victim.

But please, men on this thread (plus the OP's DP) tell us what you do every day to make sure you don't get raped.

It's partly because of the gendered stereotypes - the same ones that teach women to be always kind and polite to males, or to 'let him down gently' - that lead to both domestic and sexual violence perpetrated against men to be so taboo that it's even more difficult for them to speak about it, report it, or to seek help. This is so wrong. This is so true. My big strong son was assaulted by his wife when holding their baby in his arms. He wouldn't retaliate as she constantly pointed out if he did the police would believe her not him if she was injured, obviously her attack was self defense. He also worried as if he did retaliate he could do more damage than she could so she had a free pass. Thank God he was able to leave her. For a time the children were with me, arranged by SS, but she got them back. They are getting to the age where they will be able to make their own choices and they won't be with her for much longer. Sorry off topic.