AIBU to think both my SIL and her DD are CFs

[wisteriablossom]

Need to rant or I’ll explode !
Long story short DH father passed away , lovely man and as a family we have , whilst he was ill and to this day we are giving MIL all the support we can. On a few occasions we have asked SIL and her DD , SIL single , DD 32 years old , married , no kids, to help out as MIL is quite demanding. SIL can’t help as much, so she says , as she has a demanding job and her horse to look after. Her DD has decided to do a masters degree then her PhD , giving up her full time job and working one day at a weekend , so hasn’t the time either .
Sister-in-laws DD was bought up by her grandparents, but that is a different story in itself. DH is run ragged with his demanding job so l help out as much as I can. However, these two seem to find time to go on spa days , go horse riding , go to book clubs , go to the gym , go out with friends whilst DH , myself and our daughter do the hospital runs , the gardening, the cleaning and generally making sure MIL is ok to the point we have no energy for anything else. On numerous occasions SIL and her DD have said that they know their mother:/ grandmother will be looked after by me , as they put it , as I’m used to looking after others because I looked after my own mother for 20 years .
Today husbands niece has put up a status on FB saying “ enjoying a well deserved rest and relaxation at my fav spa” . I feel like commenting “ I’m off to help your grandmother seen as though you’ve not got the time to help her.
It does make me so cross .

Everybody suggesting the OP contact charities and outside agencies to clean the MIL’s house and tend her garden, is this how it works? Are families not responsible for their own? Genuinely wondering about this. Can you just ask social services to send a gardener free of charge because the family don’t want to do it?? Will Age UK look after the MIL simply because you ask them??

Just because they happen to be related, does not make them responsible for your MIL, nor you, for that matter.
If you want to make a big, fat rod for your own back, do it. Don't stagger about under the weight of it bemoaning those who chose a batter path.

Hmm. Hard to say on the information you've provided.

It's very possible they're taking the piss. However, some of the things you mention could potentially be done by people outside the family. I appreciate that finances might not allow. But if there's even a tenner a week in the budget she could have a cleaner once a fortnight, or a return taxi for a short journey every week, which would reduce the demands on you a bit. If I were in SILs shoes, had you and MIL decided that outsource-able things are going to be done within the family instead, and you expected me to do them as I juggled work and a PhD, I'd be very clear that it wouldn't be me being the CF in that situation.

Basically, unless MIL is abusive etc, then it would be reasonable to expect help with essential care. Some of the things you mention are probably not essential and if anything your actions might be making her more dependent. Again, I would be pretty unimpressed if you'd effectively facilitated her not doing certain things, then expected me to assist with the burden you had chosen to create.

I have been in not the same but similar situation. Op please do what I should have done: step away (even though it is hard for your mil) call a meeting with your dh and his sister and tell them it is their responsability. Of course you will help, if they are in dire need, but it is for them to do/plan. Chances are your dh will speak up to them, if he knows you won't be doing his share.

Suggest they get whatever is necessary re. Carer, cleaner, taxi service etc.

I promise you the minute there is inheritance to split your sil and her daughter will have the time.

Don't be taken for a mug, because you feel obligated and is kind-hearted.

Sadly I speak from experience.

As someone who has cared for a grandparent, you are both being reasonable and unreasonable at the same time. It sounds as though they never phone or speak to her much, so it is just a general pattern of behaviour. However, you can never know the relationships people have with others, you say she is demanding so quite possibly they have withdrawn because of that.

Also, you know yourself that it is hard. Having done it once, I will never do it again. It was too much and it affected my relationship with my husband as I was just so tired doing it on top of my stressful job. It is different when it is a temporary thing, but long term something has to give.

Also, your MIL has to learn some kind of self sufficiency. She may not be able to physically manage some things, so sorting an online food shop or helping her find a cleaner or gardener is obviously fine. But it is different if she doesn't want to help herself and doesn't learn because she knows you or DH will do it for her. She cannot expect people to rush around doing stuff for her if she can do some parts herself.

Maybe I'm a cow but the next time she says her DM is in good hands because you did it before I'd reply

'Yes but that was she was my Mother and needed me. Why should I give up another 20 years to mind yours?'

Don't post on Facebook. They'll just get defensive. Your DH needs to ask for an adult conversation with his sister where they work out between them how to approach the issue of their DM's needs. What could their mother be encouraged to take responsibility for (and who will do the encouraging), what does NOT need to be done, what can they support between the two families, and what needs to be funded (and of that, where does the funding come from - DH, SiL, DMiL, state funding, etc). When will they review this? Is it supportable or do they need to be encouraging MiL to downsize etc? Draw up an agenda and treat it like a business project. If the default position is that you do everything, that is not fair. If they refuse to discuss it, you will need to withdraw completely from supporting MiL until it is resolved.

To be fair, they're working/studying full time...not twiddling their thumbs.

You are overworking yourself and its not you SIL's or nieces fault. Just stop doing it. Tell them it's becoming too much for your family. Hire a gardener and a cleaner and ask your SIL to help pay for it.

With help be very specific in what you want, don't just ask them to help out more. Ask them to commit to one visit a week to give you and your family a break. They can split that between the two of them, so that's one visit every two weeks.

With hospital visits, ask them every single time if they can do it, every single time. Even though you know they are going to say no. Confront them with the amount of time you guys put in. After they have had to say no ten time or more they will start to realise how unreasonable it is to expect you to do it every time.

@wisteriablossom

You really need to answer the questions on what MIL needs, practically, and what she demands.

Her loneliness is a need that will more easily be assuaged if people don't see her as a demanding irritant in their lives. I'm sorry but it's true - people's character faults and qualities either attract or drive people away.

My sister - however much I put the effort in to see her, and its always on my side - just moans that I don't put enough effort into seeing them. Result? I can't be arsed.

My brother hates women. As a woman, I'm not mad keen on him. Result? I can't be arsed.

My friend who won't ever pay her way or do her share of the work - can't be arsed. My friend who sulks and puts on a front - can't be arsed.

My friend who is generous with her time and excellent to get along with? I'd loan her money, I'm helping her move house, I'm spending hours crafting for her baby.

But is what MIL is asking of you reasonable? She may be lonely, but if you are literally rushed off your feet and some of what she is asking is not reasonable you can of course push back. How many hours a week?

MIL won’t have anyone other than family in her home. So having others come in is not an option .

OP you don't seem to want to answer how much of this help that you're giving MIL is actually needed.

But since you've described her as demanding, lonely, mobile, and financially supporting SIL, I'll assume none of it is actually needed, she could pay for a gardener and cleaner, she could get herself out and about if she chose to, she could join some local groups, take up some hobbies, etc.

The kindest thing you could do for everyone involved is to encourage MIL in all of the above, rather than doing it all for her and making her as reliant on you as she was on your departed FIL.

What you are doing is up to you, your decision to do so much does not automatically mean they should to.

TBF if I was you I would feel the same as you but logically it is their prerogative to do as they please.

@wisteriablossom I know this sounds cold but they don't have to meet you halfway, and it sounds like they have decided not to.

Decide what you can do and say to MIL this is your limit. MIL can stop financially supporting SIL and pay for help.

Can you just ask social services to send a gardener free of charge because the family don’t want to do it?? Will Age UK look after the MIL simply because you ask them??

No, of course not - but Age UK can certainly put folk in touch with all manner of agencies who will help. Just in my own area these include voluntary community schemes, those who help folk into employment through discounted work for the vulnerable, befriending organisations, church groups, luncheon clubs and much more

Some of these could also help a lot with the MIL's loneliness. It's natural to feel a huge wrench when a lifelong partner dies, but not necessarily ideal for close family to fill the entire gap. Better, too, to get some of these things in place while MIL's still mobile enough to access them, rather than wait until she genuinely can't do anything at all for herself

@CardinalCopia That sounds like a very tough commute but I don't see why not wanting to move from somewhere she has lived for 15 years makes your SIL a terrible person. Could your PILs not move closer to her?

Barring significant cognitive problems (which it doesn't sound like there are), there is no need to infantilise grown adults like this. The idea of creating a family whatsapp and cutting MIL out is a terrible idea (and probably part of the reason why she isnt doing things for herself- because she doesn't have to).

If she needs help cleaning she needs to get a cleaner, if it's gardening a gardener. If there is no money available, she needs to think about downsizing. But all of this should be discussed with MIL as an adult. And if she declines, and excluding the significant cognitive impairment above and therefore lacking capacity to make these decisions, then she has made that decision and you should not run yourself ragged cleaning up after her.

MIL is not allowing anyone else in her home because she doesn't have to, members of her family are already doing what she needs/wants done.

If you don't do it someone will have to even if she needs to pay someone to do things for it.

MIL won’t have anyone other than family in her home. So having others come in is not an option

might sound harsh, but too bad! Either she is happy and independent in her own home, or she cannot manage and will have to downsize, move to a flat with no garden and so on, or at the very least accept help if you can all afford it.

Your MIL cannot expect others, even family, to put their own life on hold to be at her beck and call.

It sounds more and more like your SIL has a point.

MIL won’t have anyone other than family in her home. So having others come in is not an option

Right. Well that's a choice, and not one they have any moral obligation to facilitate. You're enabling it. They aren't the ones being unreasonable and you have zero right to expect to rope other people into the consequences of your decisions.

You sound worn out though. Are you getting Carers Allowance btw? You don't mention if you work, might be worth looking into if you don't work or are a lower earner. I think it's £125 a week you can earn on it.

So MIL would rather see you run ragged, than allow others to assist with her garden/cleaning?

That is not reasonable. Perhaps you need to sit down with her and discuss what are are/are not willing and able to do.

Of course it is important to help older family members. But not to the point that what they are asking of you is unreasonable and affecting your own life and health.

@StoppinBy exactly this!

stoppinby
if she declines, and excluding the significant cognitive impairment above and therefore lacking capacity to make these decisions, then she has made that decision and you should not run yourself ragged cleaning up after her.

This x100

Surely part of it here is saying to MIL you can help her but you’re not a gardener or a cleaner and if she needs those things it will need to be someone else doing them. If she’s mobile, can she do a lot of things herself? Can she meet others, socialise?

I am in the same position as you. I felt so angry as siblings weren't pulling their weight even though they're unemployed. All the running around was making me feel ill. I realised that i couldnt make them do the right thing. I decided to take a step back, by using outside agencies to help. You cannot continue to run around for them. You 'll have to get a gardener/cleaner. Have food delivered and unpack it there. Also rearrange hospital appointments to suit yourselves.