AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic.

[Cassort]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/48800075/transgender-skater-fighting-to-compete?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3SHOZZproHs8lkaYi9tz5VcKPnE9xQRt7AR8m8rRPu5lPTJkp1m1808Os

It's an 11 year old (born male) ice skater. There's a little video where to me she looks female.

I daren't put this on the feminism board, but AIBU to think that in 20 years time we will look back in shame at how we have treated transgendered individuals?

I just put myself in those shoes for 5 hours. What on earth would I think? How much hate would I feel? How fucked up/strange/weird would I feel?

I have a very uneasy feeling in my soul about the vociferous opposition to transgenderism on MN currently. It doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't...

Should she compete as a girl? Or AIBU?

Being a girl is not how you look.
Hth

The child in question is prepubescent, comparing 11 year old males and females is categorically not the same as comparing 21 year old males and females, if we’re talking pure physicality.

No, I do not think the child should be allowed to compete as female. Nor should they be encouraged to think that they will be able to.

Transgender people are not treated like anything - they have all the same human rights as anybody else.

No

Sorry but no there should be 3 classes Male female and trans only way to have a level playing field

Words have meanings
Yabu

No I don't agree. That child will go through male puberty and physically have all the male attributes from which a male athlete benefits. If they're going to compete in the women's category you may as well not have a women's category.

YABVU.

It makes me sad to read the responses to be honest - though I accept that all of you feel IABU. I just don't know how I'd deal with a child of my own who was transgender, or how I'd have navigated life being transgender.
I suppose the opposition is to them competing in sports, rather than them being transgender, so maybe the parents are setting them up for a lifetime of battling.
I guess someone has to stand up and not move seats on the bus though for things to change.

As I said, I accept that YOU think IABU, but I really don't think that I am. Interesting to see the responses 100% opposed to her.

Yabu in single sex sports you should compete in your sex catagory. So male.

Isn't the point of segregating sports by sex to acknowledge that the physical advantages of being biologically male mean females cannot really compete? And that in some cases it's unsafe for a male to compete against females in contact sports?

So according to you, whether someone competes as a male of female should be decided on how they look? Or would you also be ok with a more male looking person competing against females if they say the feel like it?

In reality, how a person looks or presents has nothing to do with it. Sports are segregated by sex for a reason

I guess someone has to stand up and not move seats on the bus though for things to change.

To be honest I find the reference to Rosa Parks impertinent and offensive. Comparing the struggles of an enslaved people who were then denied basic human rights after emancipation to an 11 year old boy who thinks he is a girl ...but still retains all the rights... seriously, maybe look at the history of that bus.

And at the moment the people who are being asked to move seats on the bus are women. Take a look at the high school girls in Connecticut who have been beaten by male athletes and thus lost out on scholarships, recognition, and places in advanced competitions. Someone is moving alright but it isn't men.

Before the age of 11 it hardly matters much as the difference in physique, musculature, strength etc isn't as obvious. Take a look at male and female figure skating and see the jumps men can do that women generally can't to get an idea why this matters.

I feel sorry for that kid though - for all sorts of reasons.

I'm just thinking that this child can probably be female in everything but sport. Which seems to be her thing. I just think it would fuck up a child who is already struggling with a massive issue to start with.

I'm sorry OP but this is not a rosa park moment. It would be a massive step in the wrong direction. I am not against trans people, however for a level playing field in sport there truly needs to be a trans category as its just as wrong for a trans man to have to compete against men, they are at a disadvantage that's why you don't hear about them

He is male so obviously cannot compete as a female. What's to stop any male declaring they are female to enable them to compete in women's sport which may give them an advantage. It makes a travesty of the whole thing?

I think, in 20 years time, people will look back and be astonished that anyone ever thought the biggest obstacle transwomen had to living their lives freely was women, rather than men.

Definitely not.

In Rosa Parkes' day EVERYBODY thought she WBU......

EVERYBODY thinks this child/family ABU now.

I just wonder what we will think in 20 years time and what damage we'll have done in those 20 years...

I think in 20 years time we will look back in shame at all the young children who've been raised to believe that they are the opposite gender.

I think in 20 years time we will look back in shame at what was allowed to happen to women's sports, privacy and dignity.

No this child should not be allowed to compete as a girl. This child should be allowed to compete as a boy and wear whatever costume and hairstyle and make up this child wants while doing so. This child also deserves better than to be surrounded by adults who are lying through their teeth when they say a boy can become a girl.

In Rosa Parkes' day EVERYBODY thought she WBU......

No they didn't. Stop appropriating her and the black struggle for equal rights and read some history instead.

OP don't forget this is an 11 year old child who has a lot of growing up still to do. They are entitled to change their mind, explore their identity and may see themselves completely differently in future.

just wonder what we will think in 20 years time and what damage we'll have done in those 20 years...

I think the damage we will be looking at is lots of sterile adults that have had healthy body parts mutilated or cut off in pursuit of something which isn't possible and largely based on gender stereotypes.
What does "being a girl" mean to a child, that is more then just gender stereotypes?

There's already a thread on this in feminism OP:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3626557-bbc-on-11-year-old-trans-skating-competitor

I think it's really difficult - yes, they are female presenting but biological differences will give them an unfair advantage in years to come - unless they take puberty blockers I guess? But I cannot advocate the latter given the fact they slow the growth of sexual organs (you might not get an adam's apple or deep voice but if you don't have the material with which to make your neo vagina, then you're screwed surely?) as well as possible complications of bone density, blood clots and infertility that come with pubertal suppression/cross-sex hormone therapy.

It's difficult. In the same way intersex competitors having an advantage conferred by their biology is difficult. Should both trans and intersex be forced to take hormones to level the playing field when there may be side effects?

It would be easier to have a third category but I understand that might make people feel 'othered'.

Johnny Weir had a stunning career in men's ice skating towards the end of which he wore what he goddamn pleased. Huge fan of his.