AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic.

[Cassort]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/48800075/transgender-skater-fighting-to-compete?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3SHOZZproHs8lkaYi9tz5VcKPnE9xQRt7AR8m8rRPu5lPTJkp1m1808Os

It's an 11 year old (born male) ice skater. There's a little video where to me she looks female.

I daren't put this on the feminism board, but AIBU to think that in 20 years time we will look back in shame at how we have treated transgendered individuals?

I just put myself in those shoes for 5 hours. What on earth would I think? How much hate would I feel? How fucked up/strange/weird would I feel?

I have a very uneasy feeling in my soul about the vociferous opposition to transgenderism on MN currently. It doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't...

Should she compete as a girl? Or AIBU?

As far as I know, this thread is about this one child - the OP said that she didn't want to engage in a general trans debate. Maybe stick to the topic.

You don't know much about MN then. Threads and discussions evolve and you don't get to tell people what they can talk about.

Elevating the wants and needs of over 51% of the population over a tiny minority of people is anti trans turning everything around? Debate club 101.

So why not set up the world to revolve around say, the disabled, the very tall, albinos, people with one eye..?

The vehemence with which you have picked on the sporting question on MN is telling. It's like you've found one argument where you can argue against transsexualism because facts and biology etc.
You really should try and disguise your bigotry a little better

Are you seriously that fucking desperate to try and create an angle?

I fucking love women’s sport. I’ve devoted large parts of my life, time, money to the development of women’s rugby. Damn right I’m concerned at a potential erosion thereof.

Maybe hide your agenda a little better?

No. He is a male and should compete with males... But wearing whatever he likes. I agree with some previous posters, you can't change your sex. He can become a trans female but he can't be female because he isn't. I think it borders on abuse to let children think they can become unicorns when they can't. We should be encouraging their individuality. I don't think telling them they are female because they like socially gendered female things is helpful. I feel so desperately sorry for these children.

Thump I get an overall impression from the posters here that you feel that being trans is a temporary notion, a phase, something most people go through; it will pass.
That is very closed minded and insulting to people who have battled their entire lives, many times to the detriment of their mental health and success and happiness in life.

Then why is it not equally closed-minded to assume that someone may not change their perspective on this. There are many examples of people having regrets after changing gender, and of changing back again. Denying people's viewpoints in order to make a single point is very closed-minded. Indeed, if gender is fluid, it should be possible to change gender back and forth as much as is required (and some do) without it being assumed that the goal is one change itself, and then the gender is fixed, immutable and all problems are solved. The issue is far more nuanced than that.

And there are of course some people for whom it is a passing phase too, and their experiences and wishes should not be ridden roughshod over because it suits a certain person's agenda.

I get an overall impression from the posters here that you feel that being trans is a temporary notion, a phase, something most people go through; it will pass.
That is very closed minded and insulting to people who have battled their entire lives, many times to the detriment of their mental health and success and happiness in life.

Have you met Philip/Pippa Bunce? A banker who wins women's awards for having days when he feels 'girly' and puts on his pink dress and wig.

I think 11 is too young to be making decisions about medical treatment such as puberty blockers that could do lifelong harm. Not because I think it’s a phase but because I think you need greater maturity to understand the full implications of the decision.

So do I for that matter. But I have never reared a boy who was convinced he was a girl, so I haven't walked in those shoes.

At 11, I was barely aware of my sexuality at all. I was a late developer. But being transexual isn't about sexuality, it's about feeling you're in the wrong body. If you've a little boy who all his life has wanted to be a girl and believes he's a girl and acts like a girl - who am I to say - NO - you're a boy - get over it.

I think the thread was about this child entering the girls competition rather than intended to be the typical anti-trans conceptual threads that are frequent here. There's any amount of them on here. Nearly one a day I'd say.

You really should try and disguise your bigotry a little better.

It's not bigotry to believe that biological males have an unfair advantage over biological females in sport and should not be allowed to compete in female competitive sport against females.

Thump. You keep saying 'anti trans' - well where are your examples of this?

It's not bigotry to believe that biological males have an unfair advantage over biological females in sport and should not be allowed to compete in female competitive sport against females.

In that case I'm going to object to every female over 5'6" running in the next Women's Marathon......

Anti trans = Not allowing transgender females to live life as a female.
Examples? 961 posts on here (minus a few who are pro-trans).
It's not unreasonable to say that MN is vehemently against any rights for trans females.

Height is not an advantage in the Marathon

Mo Farah is 5’8”
Haile Gabrselassie is 5’5”

What sport are you involved with Thump and to what level?

Chaz - I've decided that height is a distinct advantage. So I'm going to object. How does that sit with you?

Anti trans = Not allowing transgender females to live life as a female.

No one is saying they can't live as a female, they are saying they can't compete against biological females in sporting events. Just like they can't menstruate. Or get pregnant.

Dance incidentally - won the nationals.

Twice.

No one is saying they can't live as a female, they are saying they can't compete against biological females in sporting events.

How is that saying that they can't live as a female?

Dance incidentally - won the nationals

Great. Well done.

What level rugby coaching have you done? What lengthy research into body types, training methods etc have you done?

How is that NOT saying that they can't live as a female rather!

I don't coach rugby. Do you teach dance?

How is that saying that they can't live as a female?

How about reading the rest of what i said.

I don't coach rugby. Do you teach dance?

So you know nothing about coaching/the minutiae of rugby and yet you’re telling me that it’s absolutely no risk to play against a man?

You’re basically transplaining?

If you've a little boy who all his life has wanted to be a girl and believes he's a girl and acts like a girl - who am I to say - NO - you're a boy - get over it.

Thump, have you read the narratives of these children? To a child, they talk about superficial, stereotypical things. Long hair, sparkles, Barbies.

Take Susie Green's son (as he was then), she was so incensed that he wanted to play with girls' toys she's took every single one of his toys away.

She tells you this, frankly, in a TEDTalk.

Can you imagine? A kid comes home to his bedroom, and finds all his toys gone. Fucking gone.

Because they are the 'wrong toys'.

What he hears is he's wrong for liking them.

He got on the phone to his grandma and said he wanted a doll for Christmas, but please don't tell my mum and dad.

Susie Green is head of Mermaids. They train everyone. From the police to the D of E, schools, Stonewall, the government. The lot.

(HQ, I am using the correct pronoun, for the way this child identified, at the time.)

Most people didn't 'believe' that people could be sexually attracted to the same sex. The pope who you revere, in fact, still doesn't believe in it.

I believe the new line is that people can't be sexually attracted to their own sex, but instead are attracted to a gender. That lesbians don't exist, and those women that claim to be only attracted to other females are bigoted vagina fetishists. So I'm not sure that angle's actually going to lead to what you were trying to say.

I think the pope does believe that you can be same sex attracted, just that it's sinful to have those feelings, or to act on them.