Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

Hard one. Have you asked her what she plans to do? Ultimately it’s not your problem; it’s hers.

Would she consider paying for storage somewhere? Save you having to sort through it now and if she sees the money going out each month it might encourage her to chuck stuff out. She needs therapy though, it's not just about the stuff.

She seems to think she can take most of it. She doesn't have a plan really and doesn't see how much there is. The not wanting to pay removal cost is also a concern because I'm not lugging boxes up and down multiple flights of stairs.

As I said, we've suggested storage but she's not happy to pay for it. She won't be able to get to a storage place without a car anyway so will never be able to get rid of anything.

The irony of not wanting to pay for storage is if she hadn't spent £100s or more on all the stuff she has to store she would have more money.

Why are you getting involved?

Yanbu but I'm not sure what you can do about it. Why does your friend have such a massive sense of entitlement? I imagine you and the other helpers are doing it because you feel sorry for her but, as you say, there are limits! Has she even had a proper quote for the removals because I can't imagine anyone would come and look at this job and quote £300.00. I also can't believe you took bags of her clothes home with you!? What on earth possessed you? I think you need to say you've done more than enough already to help with this move and step right back. There's a very fuzzy line between helping and enabling in these scenarios.

You have to tell her straight that the amount she has will not fit in the smaller home. Tell her that you will not be able to help her carry her belongings. Explain to her that storage in the short term is the only alternative to disposing of the additional stuff. Then do not get further involved with it. If she refuses to pay for movers be clear that you will not be around when she moves. She needs some tough love.

She asked for our help. She has expressed thoughts of self harm and has anxiety and health issues. There is no one else to help her as she won't let anyone else in her home.

£300 is an online quote. I agree it might be an underestimate based on size of home. Obviously she has a lot more than there would normally be in a property that size.

I took the bags because her landlord is visiting this week to do an inspection and otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get in the door.

I sympathise. I have a very elderly grandmother who lives in a large house with her dog and it’s absolutely filthy. She also hoards.
The difficulty is that she won’t let anyone else in to clean (only family), and my siblings don’t volunteer any help.
I’ve been put in a situation where I’ve spent the entire weekend from dawn to dusk cleaning, but barely making any inroads. Soul destroying and very selfish.

She is mentally ill. This house move situation is part of the consequences of having an untreated mental illness. You should not have taken any of her stuff, you are just enabling her and not resolving anything. It's hard to see someone you care about suffering, but she really is ill and ultimately she is an adult responsible for her own choices. You must step away for your own sake.

Thankfully she doesn't have any pets. Although tbh there is no room for pets.

I only took the stuff because if I hadn't the landlord wouldn't have been able to get through the door. There is no spare space at all. Some of it was rubbish/ recycling which I will just dump. The bags of clothes honestly it is tempting to just throw it all away as I know she has no idea what is there, most of it is unworn.

I moved out of a small, uncluttered 3 bedroom house 15 years ago and it cost me £1500.00 so the £300.00 estimate is utterly laughable. It's unfair of this person to threaten self-harm in order to guilt you into helping her.

I don't think there is a solution to any of this so step right back for your own sake. You did not cause the mess!

I agree with a pp. This is so hard as you are such a kind person but you are enabling her mental health problem. It's the equivalent of hiding bottles for an alcoholic.

And if she is moving into a shared house with these problems untreated then things will quickly go wrong for her and she may end up homeless.
I'm not really sure what to suggest though, as clinically hoarding is harder to treat than anorexia.
I think I'd lay out to her what you think about the situation and then step away and make her make some decisions.

A hoarding disorder is a serious psychological issue.

It needs treatment not pp expecting her to snap out of it.

She possibly has an attachment issue from childhood?

Do Marie Kondo with her.

Get a skip and bin as much as possible.

Instead of picking what has to go tell her to pick out 20 outfits to keep, put them in one suitcase and bin/ recycle/ charity the rest.

Bin all paper work over a year old. All bills over 3 months old.

Removers will have quotes on average contents. She needs to be honest about quantity to not be hit with big overbill.

What preggosaurus said - this isn't a practical issue it’s a mental health issue. She asked for your help, the help she needs is not help with moving but help with her mental health. You could see if social services might see it as a safeguarding issue but hoarding is like a drug addiction, if she cant see the problem or doesnt want to fix it there is nothing you can do to help.

I wonder who is planning on moving into her old property when it is vacated.
Cos they're in for a nasty shock.

Unfortunately she cant have a skip due to where she lives. I also don't have time to go through the volume of stuff there is with her, it would take weeks and weeks. I only have 1 day each weekend.

In new home she will have 2 double wardrobes. She says this is not enough and she needs 2x this space. I have tried to say kindly this is crazy but she won't accept it.

The other thing is that if she can be persuaded to give anything up she insists on it being sold so she can make money back on it.

I am at the end of my tether.

You need to take a massibe step back. You know yourself that if she doesn't do anything between now and moving day, the removal people will refuse to do it. Or the cost will go up hugely and she won't pay it.
For a house so severe you need a team of people to help and skips.

She refuses to go through any of the piles of newspapers and paperwork, she basically is going to look through every paper in case there's something in it.

I have said to other friend I think we need a joint approach to tell her that it just isn't going to work. In her kitchen for example every cupboard is full to bursting and above cupboards every inch used. She will be in a shared kitchen so will have half the space but thinks she can take it all with her.

She hasn't arranged any removals yet because she thinks £300 is too expensive.

Christ I'd run from this situation like my hair was on fire. She is utterly deluded.

Hi, I have every sympathy with you as I have just been through this with a hoarding parent who was moving and downsizing. It was horrendous, made worse by their refusal to see there was a problem and pretty much laughing at the stress it was causing everyone else roped in to help. The day before completion - after removals has been and gone - the garage was still full. They refused to get a skip and got angry when I just started chucking stuff in boxes. In the end I just walked away and left them to it.
I agree with pp about the enabling. They will never have to face their problems if other people continue to bail them out. And they don’t appreciate it - my dad was finally bailed out by a friend who took about 5 van loads away to his house for my dad to collect at a later date. Is he grateful? Nope. He has since been moaning that his friend will be going through his stuff taking what he wants - never mind that had he not taken it, it would still be sitting in a garage that is no longer his!
I would suggest just giving your friend phone numbers/email addresses of all the different agencies and organisations that can help and then leave them too it. Ultimately it’s not your responsibility and there is help out there for them if they can face up to the fact that they do have a problem.

You're going to have to step back
She just won't be able to take it all. She'll have a crisis no doubt when she has to leave most of it and you can support her when that happens but you need to stop trying to get involved with packing and sorting etc.
I feel for the landlord as they are going to have to pay to clear the house after she's gone but that's the risk they take.
You could offer her one more day of help but be clear it's to take things to the tip ONLY and then stick to it.

If she is going into a shared house does she know the people she is going to live with?...... im just thinking they are going to be in for a massive shock if they arent aware of her current hoarding situation, what happens if she continues with the same behaviour in her new house?

Yes she knows person she will be living with ( it is their house) They know some of the issues but also know how much space there is and have said they will not have boxes stacked floor to ceiling etc.

I honestly can't see how she will do it though.