Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

Wow, you’re a better friend than me.
I feel sorry for her landlord and the person she will be living with. Does the landlord know the state of the property?

So presumably you can offer two more days of help if she’s moving in a few weeks? She’s going to have to face up to the mess very quickly. It doesn’t sound physically possible for two people to get everything done in the short space of time you have. Moving takes ages even when you’re not a hoarder!

I think she’s going to find herself in a very sticky situation with all this. I don’t understand why people railroad friends into situations that are likely to cause a fallout!

The way I see it is she’s going to need removalists come in, probably skipbins for all the extra stuff to be dumped. There’s just no way two people can do this in such a short space of time. I think she sounds very selfish.

She's asked other friend/ helper to drive her to new home to drop some stuff off (120 mile round trip) as she wants to start packing and clear some room. Quite rightly she said no. I will say the same.

Argh I missed all the updates. Txt will teach me to refresh before responding

TXt - that

That removal quote can’t be right . She needs someone to come to the house. I had a similar problem with a relative and unfortunately we had to pay a house clearance company to come in. It cost a fair bit but it took. Them a week to clear the house then I had to pay cleaners as well . If she is moving and she does not get it done there could be financial implications as well . I really feel for you .

It's not really possible to have a skip because her current property isn't on a road (think flat in a block surrounded by communal parking). We have already done 3 trips to tip with full carloads.

Landlord is coming this week. He hasn't been to property for some years, at that point he didn't do a full inspection and she then still had enpugh space to make the areas he did see tidyish. He has no idea what it's like currently.

I’ve been in this situation my best friend, a hoarder, had to move out of her home. She was in denial about what needed to be done and how it was going to be done in the timeframe.

She didn’t like spending money on anything that wasn’t a thing. So I had the same resistance to paying for removals.

She wouldn’t get rid of anything. Old Ikea catalogues, out of date tins of sweetcorn, decades old letters from school about swimming trips. It was a nightmare.

In the end, everything had to go into storage. There wasn’t an alternative but it wasn’t until,the last couple of days she accepted that. It was either pay for boxes and pay for removals and pay for storage , or it was all going on the tip.

Now is not the time she’s going to start realising she’s got too much stuff or that,she’s a hoarder.

You've already done everything you can and a lot more for this person. You won't be thanked for it. If anything you'll be blamed for things going missing.

Take back the bin bags of clothes. Definitely call adult social services. Then step back and don't do any more.

Look up FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt. It sounds like you are caught up in a cycle of feeling really bad about not being able to help someone who doesn't actually want to be helped. It's a serious mental health condition and you can't fix it.

I think the landlord visit will be a catalyst for a crisis point tbh. And also tbh, it might be fortunate that that crisis point comes before the actual exit date, as there may be some possibility for your friend’s mindset to shift, even temporarily, due to necessity.

Unfortunately that is likely to be traumatic for her. But a crisis is probably the only way that the deadlock she’s got her head in will shift.

So, I would say, take a step back from the aspect of friendship that tries to find a practical solution to avoid a crisis. Continue as a friend in the aspect of being emotionally supportive and helping her deal with the crisis that will come when she is finally confronted with reality.

Do not accept any stuff, other than to dispose of.

Whatever the outcome, you have done your best. Do not berate yourself.

Clearing out for a hoarder is like forcefeeding an anorexic. It certainly isn't the cure and can long term aggravate it as both conditions revolve around control. I really hope that the urgency of the situation clicks in and brushes away the denial, because even once she's moved this hoard out, she has to function long term in more restrictive condtions.

The clothes are an investment to her. In her logic they retain the value of what she spent on them... no matter that they go out of fashion and end up in a crumpled musty heap. In the real world, the cash for clothes is a good suggestion.

Either way the hoard is going to cost her. Either to keep and store until she can dispose of which will be ££ per month, or in removal costs.

My former neighbour hoarded including things to do with cars... unfortunately late one night he put the chip pan on. Fortunately he escaped with relatively minor burns, but the blaze was extremely vigorous and very quickly went through the roof. He was left with four walls, the detached garage and the aging cars in the front garden, some of which had perished tyres long before we moved on a decade ago. Hoarding is an awful condition that ends up dominating your life (and often death) unless the hoarder can accept it and release the possessions.

Ring her GP surgery and see what access its patients have to CBT therapy for hoarding. Although this is a long-term solution. You are a kind friend - do your best but don't let it seep into your life.

Do you know the person she's moving in with? I'd be having a conversation with them to warn them about it to be honest. She has significant mental health issues that won't go away even with tough boundaries.

itsreally It was the sweeping of the garage that made me realise that it was a completely lost cause and I had to walk away for my own mental health!

My dad was also the same in that he wouldn’t get rid of stuff because it was worth money (even though it had been sitting in the loft or garage for over 40 years) and I was having to pack half made models, rusty musical instruments and hundreds of magazines from 1962 because he would read them one day The level of delusion is off the scale.

I honestly think there is nothing you can do. Someone else might be able to advise if social services would get involved? Hoarders needs to want to change but certainly in my dad’s case I have seen no desire to. And he is generally a very selfish person.

Well, put brutally, she has given her notice and will have to leave on x date. If she cannot move the stuff, the landlord will and bill her.
You have no means of solving this. Who is she moving in with?

Think you need to step back from this. She needs professional help. She cant expect you to pay for removals and storage. Why you helping her as she doesnt want help at the moment. Can you talk to her family or gp

I know you think you are helping but you really aren't. Your friend needs you to show her some tough love.

What does she think about the state of her place? Does she have real insight into what it looks like or just think it's a bit cluttered and untidy?

This is very hard but you need to be very truthful with her and tell her what an absolute tip it is, that it is not normal and that she will probably get kicked out of where she is going as the person won't put up with all the stuff.

You need the involvement of Social Services or the local MH unit. Could you drop a letter with your concerns to her GP so they are aware of her behaviours so they could perhaps enlist someone/an agency to help?

Don't take any more stuff away. In fact it would be better to return it. It doesn't matter if her LL can't get in. They have a right to see it as is.

I would tell her that, as she is moving to a place 1/2 - 2/3 the size, then she needs to start from a position of zero items and then add only what she strictly needs. Everything else to be thrown away or recycled. She needs to accept this. If she won't accept it, step back and tell her you cannot help as you are finding the situation too overwhelming.

Sadly, you aren’t going to be able to resolve this in a few days. Hoarding is a pretty serious mental illness, and if you throw stuff out, she’ll just find a way to get her hands on more crap.

Don’t hold on to loads of bin bags for her. Maybe pack a couple of suitcases for emergency stuff so she’s got clothes, toiletries etc and then let the landlord come round. He needs to know the extent of the situation.

Social services is a good idea too. Hopefully they can offer support. But your friend needs to realise the consequences of her actions and not be completely guarded from them, otherwise it’ll happen over and over again.

She sound like she's made it everyone else's problem. Ask her what her plan is. Say well I've done my bit. Good luck. Hope it goes ok. Turn off phone.

That stuff will end up being cleared out somehow - she will end up with a huge bill probably over £1000 for it. Absolutely no way will removals take it all for £300 and she may end up with no one if she doesn't book a company. Do NOT offer to try and move any of it for her - that amount off stuff needs professionals.
Then when loads of it is inevitably left she'll also have the landlord's costs of getting rid of it.

Rather than trying to help remove stuff...

As you've seen - it's impossible to make any headway with someone in the grip of hoarding disorder (it's a sub type of Obsessive Compulsive disorder).

I think the best way forward is getti g her to go to GP. They should know what the support is locally...
. Be aware though... She has to agree to any treatment... Hoarders rarely come into treatment without partners threatening to leave/ losing jobs..

... And as a singleton she doesn't have this pressure...

Although house moving will present a lot of stressors

I would take her bags of stuff back before landlord visits.

Hiding things for her does not help her!

Let her landlord see exactly what things are like

She sound like she's made it everyone else's problem. Ask her what her plan is. Say well I've done my bit. Good luck. Hope it goes ok. Turn off phone.

Agree with multiple pp it's sounds very much like nothing any of you can do will help her, she's happy enough to have expectations of all of you, help tidy, store, drive, pay for things but does not want to have any active input herself? Agree that you should step back

I’m the landlord in this scenario and I’d urge you to step right back for your sanity. We’re nearly 7 months down the line and ex tenant has finally given up I think and time for house clearance to take the rest of the stuff. We have to renovate the whole house now as she trashed it which was always going to take ages so gave her time to clear as I felt it was a process she needed to go through if she wasn’t going to repeat it at her new home, for the sake of her children.

She was absolutely overwhelmed and just couldn’t cope. She has managed to clear a lot and over time has got much better about throwing out and I really really hope that she will not get in that state again. I need to believe there is hope she won’t as it has been incredibly stressful . She’s not answering my messages so I think unfortunately she’s become ill from it all again. We’ll take a good few years to recover financially from it but that’s part of being a landlord and we took our eye off the ball dealing with sick parents.

She used to stand there wiping down the kitchen door frame with a wet wipe, the painter was wtf is she doing. I’d dealt with my Mum who hoarded which was bad but this was a whole new level. Step away now , it has to play out . Be there to pick up the pieces, if you try to solve it now you will go under.