Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

I would tell her that she can move 10 boxes of stuff only and give her the ten boxes. Get the friend she is moving in with to say the same. When they are full that is that and everything else has to go to paid for storage or be disposed of.

Bring the clothes at your house back to hers.

If she wants to sell things then she has from now until moving out week to do it. After that it will need to go to the tip or to storage. Storage isn't practical if it's 60 miles from her new home. Also let her know the cost as it will be hundreds each month. If she can't engage with this then say you are unable to provide practical support for the move but can provide her with emotional support. So still meet up with her just don't get involved with helping arrange the move. See if she will engage with healthcare professionals.

It looks as though she will move on moving day with one van of stuff and house clearance will dispose of what is left behind which friend will probably have to pay for - again will cost hundreds.

Some hoarders never stop hoarding but for some a move to a new and tidy premises is a fresh start that they CAN maintain.

Make a list of dress agencies that sell second hand clothes on commission, and bag the clothes up and take them to them. You will likely need a few of them, because if there are that many clothes they wont' be able to take them all.

They are fussy though (and quite rightly), and will only take good quality stuff. Is this good quality stuff or are they 'bargains' that your friend has spotted on sale etc?

The friend she will be sharing with has to let her know exactly how much she can take, and that that is ALL she can pack to take with her. There will be tears, and I honestly think there will be a break down. But once she has packed what she can take (if she manages to) then the rest can be taken away.

Or would donating the clothing to a women's refuge make her willing to get rid of the clothing without selling it?

Organised - then who do you think is going to be able to help the hoarder. If council services are no good and she clearly won't spend money on anything then what can the OP do? The move is weeks away nowhere near enough time to build the sort of self awareness and resilience that is needed. The op has said she has to step away for the sake of her own health. So where is this heading. Surely a call to SS mental health emergency team is the only course. The landlord is going to go ballistic when he sees the state of his house. The new flat mate will do the same. Someone other than the op HAS to step in now. Op try and meet SS at the property because your friend is going to be homeless.

I don't think this will end well for anyone. Sorry to say.

Either for the current tenant/ her landlord/or her prospective housemate.

Does her prospective housemate know of her issues? I mentioned that earlier in the thread.

It is a very difficult issue, but OP, time to back off and let SS or whomever deal with it now. No matter what you try to do it will not be seen in a good light by the hoarder. Not their fault, but no need for anyone now other than herself to bear the burden and try to see the light.

I actually feel for the landlord of her current property, and of course her future houseshare. But I don't think her moving is going to work right away either, given the circumstances.

I am not a hoarder, but once a year do a charity shop run, recycle etc. It can creep up on you very quickly if you don't keep an eye on it. But that is just decluttering. Hoarding is a different animal altogether.

Wish you well OP, you sound very kind, but it is a battle you will not win I fear.

I will be honest that I do find friend frustrating. There isn't a tragic backstory, if anything in our friendship group her life has been the easiest (she is the only one of us who still has all her family - parents/ siblings, and her family are functional - no alcohol, drug issues, no family with serious health issues). Both siblings and parents have cluttered, 'busy' homes but nowhere near at the level she is. However they haven't been to her home for years so would have no idea it is as bad as it is.

The person she is moving in with won't withdraw the offer. However it is quite possible that an upper limit on what friend can being with her will be imposed. House share friend has already been quite clear that friend cannot bring everything but that won't have sunk in. I have to say saying 20 boxes/ bags or whatever to new home and rest to storage might be the way to go. That said she won't want to pay for storage and won't be able to get to it without car but it will be her only choice.

Clothes are 5% decent labels (but those mostly bought 2nd hand) and 95% cheaper end of high street. So each item only a few £ but there are literally hundreds of items. The only way she will make anything is cash for clothes. At a boot sale she'll get 10-20p an item but it's hard to sell much even at that level

Someone like her won’t be organised (or emotional) enough to sell the clothes either online or at a boot sale.

Poor house share friend might not realise that even restricting items that can be brought to her property will grow legs and multiply very quickly.

And it will all go south all over again. Hoarding won't be solved in a week or two will it?

But I doubt hoarding lady will actually be able to move on the date decided. Doesn't look like it to me. Landlord will be a bit miffed if not worse also.

Can't her family step in here?

In some ways I hope the landlord does react badly. It might make her focus. She is currently wasting emotional energy on a falling out with another friendship group when she needs to be 100% focused on this move and all it entails. She is not working currently so has plenty of time if not focus/ intent.

Notify Social Services and walk away.

It's not your problem. It's hers and no amount of trying to help can change that - she's sabotaging everything you do as it is.

You can't help anybody like that.

I truly feel very sorry for the landlord here. What a shock. I think the person who she is moving in with needs to come and view the current place. They need to know exactly what they are getting into. You are a good friend op

Her siblings live 100s of miles away. Her parents are local but in their 70s so lugging items up and down 3 flights of stairs is a bit much to expect.

@Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt

Perhaps the new houshare IS with a family member? Who knows.

I would not do it for love nor money though, sorry. It is a problem that cannot be solved by well meaning and kind people unfortunately.

It’s very kind of you to try to help, but you need to remove her stuff from your home.

The house sharer is going this week. If all goes to plan, we will go together to see friend next weekend and hopefully say she has X no of boxes she can bring and once they are packed all the rest goes into storage. Or charity shop/ tip.

I think that might be the only way to get her to realise and stop literally and metaphorically wiping bits of fluff off tins while she is knee/ waist deep in 'stuff'.

Re the stuff I have, I will suggest it is included in the running total of boxes/ bags to go to the house share, so that's 5, she's got 15 more or whatever.

OP and future house mate... that won't work.

She will stay and polish the spoons whilst all around her is mayhem.

My thoughts are with the Landlord now. But the future house mate should be very wary too. I would be. Sorry, but history will repeat itself inevitably. No matter what anyone does.

And I do acklowledge your kindness in all this.

Her parents might not be able to physically do much but they might be able to offer some support. I think it would be kind to involve them.

As it stands your friend is heading for disaster.

I was thinking emotional support, not furniture lugging.

Get new flat mate to tell her there's room for x hangers, two boxes under the clothes, x boxes on top etc. And be brutal that no more than that will be allowed in the van or her flat.
I'd try to help her pack her favourite things.
Get her to move early, then ring a house clearance because the landlord will hit the roof

I think her parents would be pretty annoyed and critical rather than supportive. I know I would if my 40 something child was living like this. I'm not sure there is anything to gain from involving them and I think friend wouldn't want them to be.

Gawd, does no one see that rules regarding limiting possessions will not work with hoarders?

New housemate and landlords are the losers here I fear, no matter the kindness and well meaning.

No one can change the habits of a lifetime overnight really.

OP the more you say, the more I think your friend sounds like my friend.

She had to move from two places before she let go of the stuff. Perhaps it will be the same. When you are literally faced with eviction vs. stuff....

Op I started a similar thread a month or so ago, about my FILs partner. FIL rang me and asked me to help him sort out their bungalow. Its a 2 bedroom council bungalow and crammed full of junk, there are walkways through and a small space in the living room and that's it.

The advice I was given was that I can't do anything. If I empty it, fils dp will be heartbroken, angry, anxious and just re buy more stuff. The only person who can stop it is FIL, as it's his tenancy and he needs to stop it or ask her to leave.

She owns a bigger property in a different but still local town. It's apparently uninhabitable. If FIL dies or goes into care I am not sure what we are going to do. She wont inherit the tenancy as I don't think she officially lives there.

It's a mess. But not one I can solve.

And you can't solve this. Just take a step back, explain to your friend that unless she takes control of the situation she is going to find herself in a huge mess. Then leave it up to her.