Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

Once she is in her new home, the incentive to seek MH help will dissipate and fade. You have to detach with love, you sound dangerously close to co-dependence. I would say the same if it were a family member rather than a friend. The mantra for friends and family of addicts applies here too:

You didn’t cause this
You can’t control this
You can’t cure this

You know you will get a call on moving day, make sure you have unalterable plans to be elsewhere and uncontactable.

Can you make a genuine appointment for her moving day in the morning.
So that if you do have to pop down it would only be for a few hours (hopefully)

Your actions are pulling her back from getting MH sooner rather than later.

Possibly...if she was prepared to seek any MH support. Many people simply aren't. I can think of at least 3 people I know with MH issues which are in many ways more serious than hers who have never sought any help or treatment, and they acknowledge they have these issues. She thinks this is normal.

I will try and find some way to make myself unavailable on moving day. In the meantime I'll repeat that I am not clearing out the storage area either, so she doesn't labour under the mistaken belief I will help with it.

Agree you need to find a "wedding" or similar to need to go to on her moving day. Mention it next time you speak so she is aware.

Have arranged something now and reminded friend I won't be available.

Another friend has made me aware that hoarder friend has implied she is finding this process stressful and has considered self harm. Having dealt with a partner who threatened suicide I can do without this. I don't believe that she is an immediate danger to herself. I feel really annoyed with her. I probably should feel sympathy.

This is your golden opportunity to get MH services involved right now.

Self harm or suicide ideation is a very serious matter for professionals - not concerned friends.

Report this ASAP. You have no idea if she is in immediate danger to herself and you cannot take this risk. I understand that there may have been “false” threats from an abusive partner in the past - but even if these are “false” reporting it is ten right thing to do.

Moving into a shared home is not a viable solution to her housing problem. Who’s idea was that? It is totally unfair on the other tenants.

You need to step away from the house situation entirely. From everything you have said there is absolutely nothing you or your friends can do to practically help.

Speak to a mental health charity and get some proper support for her. She can’t declutter without addressing her mental health issues and she can’t move into a shared house.

In fairness fo him my expartner wasn't abusive...And I know from dealing with all that, that even if a person was willing to engage (which she isn't) not much is done. I am not going to give sympathy because she has caused this situation and her refusal to accept the reality of it or seek help means there is little that can be done.

I will be going there once more, and helping her to book a van as that hasn't been done. Ditto getting her some moving boxes. Doing some packing. And that's as much as I can or will do.

The shared house was an option she took because she cannot afford to live where she is (or indeed to live anywhere on her own because she isn't working other than some odd cash in hand work and is living off savings). I've said upthread she is only living with one other person who is also a friend and aware of the situation. She doesn't have time or money to go anywhere else.

I know it's not an easy thing to do but have you called her out on the fact that in an hour you packed four boxes, whilst she did none? So not attacking her over the bigger picture, but telling her that she's not pulling her weight on a smaller scale?

If she won't accept or admit that she has MH problems then she can't expect you to do all the work whilst she does none?

friend has implied she is finding this process stressful and has considered self harm
You put down boundaries with her - so she this is how she responds to make you weaken your boundaries and go back to sorting it all out for her.
It's a manipulation technique so don't fall for it.

This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. You’ve had great advice here OP and I’m glad that you are following it.

Any update was this the moving weekend?

Why are you getting involved?

The words 'close friend' provide a slight clue there, or does that mean something else to other you people??

*other people

You should have been reporting the threat of self harm.

Propping people up does them little goid.

If she has a breakdown on moving day, that will get her known to services, its a start.

My Sister's a hoarder and so is a friend. Like gambling, it's a tough addiction because there's nothing illegal going on.

As tough as it is, you've got to let them go into crisis.

This is a really difficult one my instincts would be to also run like my hair on fire, I feel like you won't be able to save this woman and if you try she would just take you down with her

The saga is still continuing.

I am actually so angry with her that I wouldn't go to hers again even if I'd not already said I can't help in future.

She basically lives in a dreanworld where she expects everyone to feel sorry for her and help her. She pleads poverty yet in clearing her flat I have found over £1000, maybe double that. Plus she's wasted a similar amount on all the brand new clothes/shoes/toiletries/ household items that were still in their carrier bags.

She expected everyone to move her for free. She's got someone she knows to provide a van and man now free to her. However she thinks this one bloke will move all her furniture and didn't realise she'd need to help him.

She has to be out by month end but still has only packed 2 rooms (and I did 90% of those). She has about 5000 newspapers and magazines she won't throw away.

I am just so angry about her sense of entitlement, lack of effort. It costs me £10 each time I go to hers. She's not offered me a penny. It's also not a great time for me personally yet I'm expected to give her more sympathy over a relationship that ended 8 years ago (which is part of reason for her move as he has finally met someone else and she isn't happy about it).

YANBU. you've already been more than helpful. This is not your problem to solve. A simple "i've already spent a lot of time trying to help you manage all of this and now i have my own responsibilities to attend to. Good luck with the move, let's have a cuppa once you're settled in the new place."

Yes I've told her I am done. Her last day in the property is next week but I work weekdays and have told her already I am busy this weekend. So she knows I will not be around. One of our friends is giving her some help over the weekend but just for a few hours. Aside from that it's what she can guilt other people into doing so she doesn't have to pay for any removals etc. I'm so annoyed with her I feel it has really put a strain on our friendship.

@Itsreallyallovernow
please let go of the anger, step aside and see that this isnt your problem therefore you dont need to be angry about it

You can't help with the move really beyond making her prepare a few boxes and bags of sentimental and every day things. She will lose all the rest. There is no way she is getting it done without a team of house clearers so realistically the best help you can give is ensuring the most vital things - personal photos, records and passport, IDs etc are ready to go, along with enough clothing she likes to fill her two wardrobes and then enough from the kitchen to stock her new place. The rest of it, don't touch, she needs to do it herself because she will resent you always if you start binning her hoarde.

What will happen is she will be evicted and have to take what she can, i.e the thing s you helped her prioritize and she will grab whatever else she can last minute. she will then proceed to feel very hurt and miserable because she will see the landlord as having stolen all her valuables. She will foxate on things she knows she lost that she assigns value to, regardless of whether it was actually valuable. She will then need to go shopping mad to try to fill the void inside her where the stuff was. Ideally your help and support will come after the move. With regular visits to help her avoid rehoarding, and with finding her a good therapist. As a friend you are limited to what you can do, but she needs you and if she pushes you away in anger she will be more likely to self harm. So, use only positive suggestions. Don't let her see how frustrated you are or nag her to make big decisions, instead say "I'm going to fill these boxes with the essebtials, stuff you will need in the first few weeks. So let's start in the kitchen". If you tske this approach you will have helped her retain enough things she needs to stock her new home and personal items, and she will see you as someone who was there for her rather than part of the enemy who stole her things.

My advice is based on being a hoarder myself (I'd say a low level hoarder now, but I have been not far below your friend in the past) and knowing how comforting the clutter is, it becomes a protective layer to keep people away. Also i understand her fear of people coming into her home and also the desire to replace things thst are lost. I watched every episode of hoarders over the years to break myself of my habits, so.maybe take photos of her home now for her and later if she starts hoarding more, show her them and remind her how life limiting it was. Remind her how it felt to be scared if a fire or of not being able to have the landlord in for repairs. Hopefully when she is a few months in the future you can get her to look back and see how unwell she was.

I'm done with her. I don't know if the self harm threat was genuine. I actually am seeing how manipulative she is whether consciously or not and how ungrateful. She hasn't offered us anything for helping her and all our petrol and expenses. The closest she came was to say she'd give me a good price on some clothes. The clothes that only cost a couple of pounds new. She expects everything for free and for everyone to help her.

I won't be helping her again and tbh I won't be rushing to help her in the new place either (which again because she expects stuff for free she's not willing to pay for until she's fully moved in. Even though she has £100s lying around at home.

I have my own shit going on. I need to put myself first for a bit.

Some charity shops will collect large amounts of clothes . British Heart Foundation will collect furniture. Would a man & van be cheaper than 'proper' removal firm? I found a website where you put what's to be moved & diff ones quote you. I just locked cheapest.

She's got someone to move her for free. But expects him to do all the lifting single handed and that she won't have to help. She's also not prepared to dispose of anything. She's already taken about 20 bags of clothes and has the same again to go (packed by me). She only has a few items of furniture all of which she is taking (albeit she doesn't think she will be physically moving it) the rest is her landlords.

Thankfully none of it is my problem.