Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

You are a good friend. But you can't solve this, unless your friend starts helping herself.

Have you spelt everything out to her very clearly? There is no room in new property, you will not be doing her moving for her, her moving costs are unrealistic, some things will have to go or into storage?? I think you also need to set clear boundaries what you will and won't do and stick to it. Do not take any more of her stuff!

Removers will want to see the property before giving you a proper or fixed quote. Our three bed was £1800 Inc packing, £1250 without and that was reasonable rates. Even a man with van would be around £900 for a day. My tidy modest house filled FOUR 3.5 ton vans with expert packing!!! The removal company just brought in extra vans but imagine doing that with one vehicle and the new people breathing down your neck?

Is there a risk if she doesn't control this she'll start taking over communal or other housemates space and find herself kicked out of that property?

She needs long term help. Are there any charities which specialise in helping people with hoarding??

My ex was similar and I had to throw tons of stuff away without him knowing when we moved, and moving was still a nightmare. (£700 for movers & additional transit van-3trips).
Recently Mary Kondo ? - The Netflix series on home organising - helped ex a bit -(you pile everything of the same type in one pile and only keep it only if it ‘brings you joy)’-but there needs to be an effort from her side. If she is unable to face up to it then there is not much more that you can do.

I think there will be a thread in the not too distant future from someone complaining about a person who hoards who has moved into their house share.

I have a friend like this . She moved from a big 4 bedroom house with loads of storage that was crammed with stuff to a one bedroom flat. She has mental health problems and is unable to work because of them, so had been late with rent one too many times and coupled with the state of the house, her private landlords gave her notice.

She had 6 months notice (landlords I suspect were trying to be nice), but was in total denial about it all. Kept saying that she was packing for months and months, but at the same time doing nothing really. Just totally overwhelmed by the enormity of task. Also only looking for a new flat in a particular area for an unrealistic rent.

It got really close to the wire. I was so scared she was going to be homeless, I was prepared for her to come and live with me. In the last week she finally found a flat ( i borrowed money for the deposit). And then she basically had a total breakdown a couple of days before she was due to be out, I went round and found her just kind wandering around her house putting things in carrier bags and moving them around. It was just too traumatic for her. Myself and several friends had to basically intervene and go and do it all. Dozens of tips runs, dozens of charity shop runs, cleaning , moving boxes, packing. Awful. While she just looked panicked and dissociative in the middle of it, just kind of like she was having an out of body experience. It was fucking awful. So traumatic for her.

Do you have one of those places where you can sell the bags of clothes. Here they are called cash for clothes. You just hand over the bags and they weigh them and pay you so much by kilo.

not Surprised you’re worried! What a stressful situation she is trying to put you in.

I would agree that this is not your responsibility, and I would consider the possibility that this is a friendship you have lost either way - if you try to help, you are likely to break yourself and she may accuse you of, for example taking her stuff, spoiling things etc
If you take a step back, she may well blame you for her ensuing crisis.

I would suggest a pp’s suggestion of thinking of her as an addict - you know they have to it rock bottom? However, that probably won’t fix it - again as someone said hoarding is a really complex disorder.
Even if I would work, you can see as an outsider that there isn’t time for sorting the stuff, let alone any armchair counselling.

I would suggest sitting down with your other friend, working out possible outcomes for the whole sorry mess & then presenting them to hoarder friend. Be totally explicit about what you are and are not offering
‘We will help you on x day - we will take you/ stuff to recycling centres/charity shops.
We will NOT be driving a van or helping you on moving day - you need to organise something else for this, we do not think you can manage it by yourself.’

I have suggested to the other friend who is helping that we have an honest chat and tell her where things stand, but I'm not sure she is ready to hear it though.

I know someone who moved recently in a man & van scenario from a similar size home and paid £350. But they had nowhere near as much stuff (albeit friend has no furniture as current place is furnished) so I think it will be more.

My husband has hoarding tendencies (luckily it is manageable) so I get it.

But you've done loads already.
I think you need to explain to her one last time why a . You can't help any more than you have and b. She needs to get a grip on the situation and step away tbh

Does the move all have to happen on the same day?

I would say that the friend she is moving in with needs to specify how much stuff she can bring eg 1 box of kitchen items
30 hanging items 2 shelves of books 1 box of paperwork etc.

Cross posted with everyone who said it better. I’m really sorry you find yourself in this situation.

I'm not sure if she will actually give up any of the clothes. Even if she does she's said that you don't get enough money at the cash for clothes places.

I do think all we can do is set it out honestly and step back. I can do a max of 3 more days before she is due to move. Other friend can do 1. And that's it. Yet 3 rooms you can't even get through the door.

Verily1 unfortunately although your suggestions are sensible and what you’d expect most people to gratefully accept as steps forward, I can bet my bottom dollar Ops friend won’t! I tried all these suggestions with my dad - including watching the Marie Tidying up series - he fell asleep.

It is deeply psychological and as such I do think they are unable to see that there is a problem. My dad appeared to be in a parallel universe. “It’s ok, it’s all under control...” he kept insisting, sweeping small visible sections of the garage floor, surrounded by mountains of rusty junk, less 12 hours before completion. It was like polishing the teaspoons as the Titanic was sinking.

Op - having read your update I really urge you to stop now for your own sanity - and the sake of your friendship actually. They will push you to the limit, and yes it is sadly probably due to childhood trauma but the sheer level of self-entitlement and lack of empathy from my dad towards my mum and everyone else roped into the drama has left me with very little sympathy and now sadly, our relationship is hanging by a thread.

Hoarders just won’t be reasoned with. I honestly think you need to walk away 🍷

Even the removals told me I was fucked

Well done for being a good friend, but it appears to need more than that. You should make a referral to Social Services for her. It is a mental health situation and they may be able to offer professional support.

Also, you could contact your local Fire and Rescue Service, hoarding is becoming recognised as a serious community safety issue and they will be able to help and advise of organisations that can help.

I feel so sorry for the person she's moving in with. Does that person have the remotest idea of what she is letting herself in for?

Ah thismonkey you are spot on. The polishing teaspoons on the Titanic...friend was wiping surfaces so crumbs didn't get on floor. Same floor that hasn't been hoovered for years because it's covered in stuff.

I think our last resort is an honest conversation, clearly stating she has to take responsibility for this mpve, arrange vans etc and that we will give max 4 days help before the move and that's it.

Consumed on Netflix is far better than Kondo.

I also agree this is a MH issue and authorities need to be involved. She needs support going forwards which can take months to get in place (so no good for the move but needed for friend).

You will need to talk face to face with her and explain it isn't possible and see how she takes it. I'd say watch a few episodes beforehand as there are attachment issues with each episode and a process before items can be binned but once there is a breakthrough moment it can be refreshing. Good luck. I think you have been monumentally kind to do this for your friend

I feel bad making a referral to Social Services (although in her area they are v overstretched so won't be able to do much) or the Fire Brigade.

You're a lovely friend OP wanting to help her but sadly I can't see your friendship surviving this. Everything is an excuse- you don't get enough money at the clothes place, she can't have a skip, why can't you drive the van and save her money- she doesn't want to throw anything away and it will all squeeze into the new place, even though she knows that's not true. My DM and I had to clear out my DA's place while she was in hospital, spent WEEKS sorting, throwing away, cleaning and decorating and all we heard afterwards was complaints.

Don't take any more binbags into your house OP. I'm worried you'll never be able to get rid of them.
Why is friend moving anyway? Perhaps if you can help her to connect to the root cause of why this is happening she might be more incentivised to allow stuff to be cleared.

I think your only chance of making any progress is to tell her to go out for the day - not near any shops - and just throw away everything that is clearly just junk.

You can't do anything. Hoarding is a mental illness and you will not be successful in making her throw things away. So give up.
It sounds cruel but you are on a hiding to nothing here.

Sorry pressed post too soon...was going to add that if that's what needs to be done to help her re referral then I guess I have to.

And yes person she will be living with knows some of it. Not full extent though.

They won't be able to help her here but there is a psych issue here that needs to be addressed or it will resurface.

This situation is impossible but she needs to realise that after you both talk to her. It's not a failure from you two but a disproportionate amount of her relying on you to unpick years of mental health problems going under the radar.

So has the landlord been to the house and seen all this stuff?
I think this lady needs professional help. I'd take a step back even committing to 1 day a week is too much you've said you have a job and a family. Also do not take any more stuff to your house , she needs to arrange for the things to be moved not you .
You could probably hire a man and a van for removals to be cheaper but then it's moving everything. If she is going to get removals it'll be no where near £300 I was quoted close to £1000 10 years ago for a normal 3 bed house . She needs to except that she can't take everything and that it is going to get binned . Why can't you get a skip ? I believe if a skip is on a road you need to get a permit from the council . but you can't move everything so it needs to be binned , keeping old newspapers etc is insane. The other alternative is load your car up and take everything to the local tip . I made several trips to my local tip when I moved and I'm not a hoarder .