Hoarding and moving house

[Itsreallyallovernow]

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

I think it will just have to be left behind and the previous landlord will have to pay for house clearance. Maybe just focus on helping her pack the things that are her priorities/essential items with the time that you can give? You're not going to be able to do all of it and if she can't afford £300 then she won't be able to pay for full removals.

You need to take a step back, they don't seem to want help themselves or to move forward with this. Too much of this is being pushed onto you and you have your own life. Don't take stuff to your house as she will use this as an over-spill and will be pushing the problem elsewhere. She's being unrealistic about moving costs and it doesn't sound like she will get the deposit back from her current place either. I think the best way forward is you and other friend telling her what you can do and spelling out her current approach isn't realistic. All of this doesn't bode well for sharing a living space with others.This is a mental health issue and she will probably need professional help to overcome it

I have some experience with hoarders. My advice is to move her into the new property asap as this will be the catalyst for sorting out her existing property. She will only be able to fit a tiny amount and will realise that the rest needs dumping. Please don't wait until the moving date or she will in all liklihood refuse to go. Many times I have stood in houses with the van on the drive whilst the hoarder sits looking through a small pile of papers slowly whilst surrounded by goodness knows what kind of shit. The landlord hassling at the door. Move her now to the smaller place in a van with essentials then once in organise a house clear of the rest. But long term she needs ss involvement. Hoarders don't do house shares. Expect the new arrangement to fall apart within the next 6 months if that. Sorry but it's grim and there are rarely happy endings sorry.

Sorry, hadn’t seen the update that she can’t have a skip. Well if she’s grumbling about £300 she’s going to get a shit of a shock because it’s going to cost her way, way more than that! I think the house will also need to be cleaned because I can’t imagine the state it’s in being under piles of debris. As well as the fact the furniture is probably trashed. Sounds like she’s living in la la land if you ask me.

I find it bizarre all the people saying “it’s not your responsibility” and “you can’t help her” and report her!

Like I said, I had a friend in a similar position and helped her. It took about six of us two days helping as much as we could to empty her house. She was just traumatised, paralysed by the enormity, I’m denial and eventually deeply ashamed and incredibly grateful.

She was unable to do it so her friends had to help her.

There have been and will be things I can’t do alone and friends have helped me.

My friend’s depression and anxiety prevented her from being able to sort out her house/house move, but she is wonderful in so many ways and kind to me and my children. I’d help her all over again if it needed done ( and it might as she’s just as bad in her new flat) . Me helping her move flat didn’t solve the underlying problems, that’s a bigger issue. But i’ll Continue living her regardless.

You cannot solve this monumental situation.

Hoarding is a recognised MH illness and tbh you need to extricate yourself from this situation as soon as possible.

You really shouldn't have got involved in the first place.

Are you aware that your friend will resent you for clearing out lots of her valued (crap) possessions??

Your other friend had the right idea by getting herself out of this.

Step back. You can’t solve the problem with the time and resources you have available to you. Not your circus not your monkey.

@gingerginger2 well what is the alternative? OP take annual leave and neglect all other personal commitments, for an unrealistic tasks due to the timescales and the hoarded frame of mind / mental state. She won’t get any thanks for any of this and there will be a cost to the OP. Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom and feel the true implications rather than being “saved” all the time

I did this for a friend

tbh in the end she paid for storage. it was tragic because she was in a huge amount of debt and she wouldn't let anyone just bin the stuff. We did as you did - rescued the important papers - and then said that certain things were obvious, if she hadn't seen them for years, then there wasn't going to be anything important in there.

I helped out for 2 days before deciding it was affecting my mental health and I couldn't do any more!

Speak kindly, explain the situation is that what she has won't fit in new home given its size and the new way she have to live.

I would suggest car boot sale for anything which is new, with tags, and same for anything surplus to what she needs to take to new home. That might pay for some of moving costs.

Give her one box and she can fill that with her most treasured and 'must come to new house' belongings. Then she has her required clothing and shoes on top of that and then kitchen type essentials.

You need to be quite black and white (while being kind) about how much less space she will have at new place and drastic measures are required

Could you call AgeUK and ask if they have people experienced with this and how to correctly but politely tackle this?

gingerginger2 It’s lovely to hear such a positive story and your friend is lucky to have such a great group of friends.

Some of us suggesting that the op should step away from this are basing it on our own experiences which have, sadly, had less than happy outcomes than yours.

My dad had many people helping. Some of those who gave up three time to help had helped him move 40 years previously and remembered some of the stuff they moved because it was sitting in exactly the same place where they had left it 40 years previously.

He probably was overwhelmed but he had two years of knowing this day was coming and instead of being grateful to all these friends who had given up days of their time he was rude, angry and ungrateful - even after they had helped him to achieve his goal of bringing most of his shit with him.

Of course, this is only my own experience and perhaps ops friend will be different. Hopefully she will realise how lucky she is to have such kind and caring friends and embrace all the help offered and this story will have a happy ending (even for the poor bastard she is moving in with )

She's a grown adult who needs to get help for her MH and you aren;t responsible for her mess.

My dad is a hoarder and won't change. He is in sheltered housing and they came and looked at it, don't think they did anything. He has managed to get himself a lunch club support and cleaner after I didn;t get involved.

If you take over they will not do anything. You need to let them get on with it, really.

I have to say it's affecting my mental health and I've only done a day. A combination of the enormity of the task, the fiddling while Rome burns that friend was engaging in, plus the sheer waste of it all. She has wasted so much money on clothes, toiletries, home furnishings, kitchen items, food even for it all to sit in bags for years and months and never be touched or used. It is horrendous.

I think I am done with it. I have my family to think of. And I do think as pp have said she may need to hit bottom. She doesn't get it yet. The landlord above who mentioned about cleaning doorframes, yes while there's still no space on the floor, exactly right.

After spending an entire day there where you can't walk down the hallway for bags and boxes of shit on both sides plus hanging off all the doors I came home and my house felt empty (I have a normal amount of clutter. But in comparison it felt like I had nothing) and it was lovely.

The problem with getting her moved to new place is she cant/ won't travel between the 2 unless we give her a lift (It's about 3 hours on public transport) and then she won't be able to come back to where she lives now to pack or remove anything.

The trouble with taking stuff to a car boot sale is that it's hugely time consuming and will only get rid of a fraction of the stuff. Also items will need to be cheap to sell them - will hoarder friend accept that she's only likely to get 10% or less of what she paid for new items? Worst case scenario is long wasted day and still a load of stuff at the end of it.

At this point the only solutions that will work are those which get rid of high volumes. Storage sounds like a way of deferring the inevitable. However at this point OP I think you need to step back and see what landlord says as that may galvanise her into action.

Sorry cross posts with your post OP - stepping away at this point seems like the sensible option.

She will say it's all essential. All of it. Every single thing. She has probably 50 items of clothing hung in doorways. I tried to say I could take it all but she insists she will wear it before she moved. It was all new. She won't wear any of it.

Sorry if I missed it, but did you say why she's moving ?

Is this a situation that could be referred to adult social services? I have no experience but it sounds like a job for professionals not just friends.

Gingerginger, it sounds more like your friend had become overwhelmed and stressed with life and couldn’t cope, rather than being a true hoarder. The rage and hostility of a true hoarder is a sight to behold. It’s taken us 6 months to sort out our family hoarder’s house which includes numerous builders skips and a professional house clearing company. Is he grateful and relieved? Is he hell. Resentful, accusatory, nasty and angry. He always was a selfish bugger tho. Walk away OP. You can’t solve this.

You are such a lovely friend OP.
Check out the NHS Hoarding guidelines section.
It's a mental illness. She needs professional help. CBT is supposed to be helpful.

A team of professionals would be needed to cope with this OP.

There's no way you can manage this situation. The woman is really sick. She'll drain you mentally and physically, you'll get no thanks for it.

Please please listen to the other people who have told you to turn your mobile phone off all weekend on the move. Avoid answering the landline if you have one and if she turns up with stuff do not open the door!

The Titanicteaspoons poster from earlier (sorry can’t remember your real username) in the thread is right- while it’s a mental issue it is just so horrifically selfish and absorbing/draining you lose all sympathy.

You need to stay away from this madness and look after your own mental health.

FWIW You sounds like a good friend

Rookiemere agree entirely 're boot sale. Great idea for the average person if moving and need to offload a few bits (and happy to give to charity if no sale). She won't sell cheap or give away what's left. And the sheer volume precludes It, she has more clothes than your average ladies clothes shop.

She's moving for personal reasons but also financial, the rent in her new place will be 50% of what she pays currently.

I really don’t see how on earth this is going to happen with the 120 mile round trip as well! What a nightmare.

Sounds awful OP and I have sympathy for everyone involved - you, her, the landlord, and the new house share she's descending on.
When are you next seeing her?