I don't get the trans debate but now I need too

[Ayedresses]

I work for a government young organisation. It's a youth organisation that involves/revolves around residential trips. The young people are 16.

Beforehand if a young person was trans, for sleeping arrangements we would call up their friends who they wanted to share accommodation and ask if the parents were happy for their young person to share with (politically correct) person who may not associate with their biological gender.

Now things have changed. Now we must not ask a Young person for their gender and the young person can freely choose where they feel most comfortable to sleep/shower/toilet.

We very much state that these things are single gender as the young people are 16 and we wanted to assure parents that their young people are safe and not going to go home pregnant. While the same rules will apply 'boys tents over there.... Girls tents around there...' if you're trans you get to pick what camp and we're not allowed to tell their room mates nor does the YP have to tell their room mates.

At present we seem to have a fair few young people who are female to male if that makes a difference.

I'm not particularly happy with this, and I think it's a safeguarding risk and a huge headache.

tilder

Glad someone does. I can't understand how we're at the point where it is apparently progressive and inclusive to place trans* teens to share with the sex they aim to transition to live as.

None of the wonderful transmen and transwomen who took the time to tell me about their struggles would have wanted people they didn't 100% trust seeing teenage them getting ready in the morning. As struggling young people trying to be accepts as girls/boys, the last thing they wanted was to risk roommates seeing their genitalia.

Don't you think it's just a bit of a leap to assume that having a trans girl in with the other girls means that trans girl is going to be busy trying to impregnate them?

Trying to impregnate teenage girls has nothing to do with it.

It's not a comfortable thing to think about but the fact remains that teenagers have been having sex since the beginning of time. Sometimes this sex leads to pregnancy but I'm sure I don't need to explain to you how babies are made.

Quite frankly you're bloody naive if you think there is no risk of teenage pregnancy when you allow teenage male bodied people to share sleeping accommodation with teenage female bodied people.

Genuinely let out a snort of laughter at the idea that a full body inspection would be required to distinguish a teenage boy in eyeshadow from a masculine girl. Surely you're just trolling now?

OP get in touch with these guys they are very knowledgeable about safeguarding etc www.transgendertrend.com/

Another perspective from a parent to a trans child.
My son, (know 20 identified from younger), completely understands the need for single sex spaces and whilst starting his transition said he would have felt embarrassed sharing with boys and also said things like 'im not a proper boy, but i know im not a girl, im nothing' But when he shared with girls on his first trip after starting transitioning he was ridculed, hair pulled, name called, called 'a digusting excuse for a human being' and pushed out of accommodation parents also complained. This has lead to him never going on trips, not using the toilets at school (as he was not allowed to use disabled), hes had countless UTIs, wont go on nights out, dosent go swimming, the gym etc. If he could not transition and be comftable as his biological sex he would be. He would have loved his own provisions to be involved with discussions but this never happend. He never had the safegurading he needed.
He knows quite a few other trans people and most at that age dont want to share with there bio or identified sex and dont quite know what to do.
i believe most places that schools/groups do residentials there is quite a few different rooms, single sex provision should happen, with single, double, or another small number of rooms diffined as mixed sex this could be for transgender young people, maybe even sharing with those who have explicitly said they would be fine in mixed sex accomdation.
As a couple people touched up thread i wanted to make clear the struggles transgender young people face, they have a similar risk of being bullied and many would argue greater. There needs do not trump others, but they should be taken into consideration more so just like any other young person with a medical condtion. There is normally diasbled facilities like toilets that could be used and the young person should be consulted before hand.

i believe most places that schools/groups do residentials there is quite a few different rooms, single sex provision should happen, with single, double, or another small number of rooms diffined as mixed sex this could be for transgender young people, maybe even sharing with those who have explicitly said they would be fine in mixed sex accomdation

Absolutely

Im sorry your son has has to struggle so much

letssee your post is really the crux of it. We fail ALL the kids if we don’t look for a better way than “identity”.

He knows quite a few other trans people and most at that age dont want to share with there bio or identified sex and dont quite know what to do.

As you say, smaller group rooms or a more holistic approach. Safeguarding needs to be working for trans kids as well as for all the rest. Kids are kids, they deserve better than to be weapons in a fight.

Totally agree safeguarding and privacy must be there for trans children as much as any and all children.

letsseethanshallwe brilliant post, so sorry your son had to go through all that. The Cornwall Guidance mention similar things, trans children not wanting to use either facility, wanting to have separate provisions, but being almost forced by teachers (fresh, one can only assume, from Mermaid-esque training) to use the sex they identify as. It's cruel to everyone to pretend that reality doesn't exist, it harms everyone. Lot's of reports also now of girls getting UTIs, becoming dehydrated, and missing school from toilets being made unisex. Who does it help? No one. The adults running these things need to get their heads out of their arses and start putting the needs of the actual children first.

I think letsseethanshallwe post highlights just how toxic an environment the hard policing of genders by both sexes has become, and how anyone who slightly deviates from the norm gets picked on quite severely. Only yesterday I had a friend crying because her lovely unique 8 year old son had been told (and had it verified by her 12 year old brother) that he was most definately NOT a boy, and was a girl, and that he would need to get a vagina, based purely on the fact that he has his hair in a ponytail. This is told to him several times a week by different children - my son had the same - kids who steadfastly refused to believe he was a boy simply based on hair being a bit longer than the norm. The 8 year old is now beginning to waver in his belief that he is a boy, so I can totally believe the amount of bullying that goes on.

Only yesterday I had a friend crying because her lovely unique 8 year old son had been told (and had it verified by her 12 year old brother) that he was most definately NOT a boy, and was a girl, and that he would need to get a vagina, based purely on the fact that he has his hair in a ponytail. This is told to him several times a week by different children - my son had the same - kids who steadfastly refused to believe he was a boy simply based on hair being a bit longer than the norm. The 8 year old is now beginning to waver in his belief that he is a boy, so I can totally believe the amount of bullying that goes on.

THIS is the danger with this bollocks. All this "challenging gender stereotypes blah blah blah" shite, when the opposite is so obviously true. We cannot challenge childhood stereotypes whilst also promoting an ideology that reinforces them. The two things are mutually exclusive.

Sometimes I do wonder if anything would make me change my mind on this subject. Then I read posters like Reanimated and their persistent 'misinterpretation' of the situation without adding anything genuine, and I feel totally comfortable that I'm not missing anything.

The 8 year old is now beginning to waver in his belief that he is a boy,
And if the 8 year old stated that he believes he is a girl, based on this sort of thing happening, he could find a bunch of adults, including his parent possibly, going along with it and setting him on a path to complete misery.
so I can totally believe the amount of bullying that goes on.
It may not be bullying - it may be a completely predictable result of the 'education' of young children about 'trans issues'.

@Ayedresses any update on this?