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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About ds finishing uni ?

208 replies

ginorwine · 13/06/2019 23:52

Ds had gap year prior to uni and has now completed a non vocational
Degree .
Due to a combination of personality ( not planning ) and troubles with his partner , ds is now heavily hinting that he wants to come home in order to save money to then go travelling , after which he will seek to establish a career .
Little idea what he wants to do . We asked him to see uni careers -after some time they suggested he did ma but his heart isn’t in it , and no further guidance .
So .. option to remain in uni town with few mates ; get a job and the travel
. This difficult because the rent is expensive so it limits what he can save .
He has suggested that he returns to us.. which we have agreed to but that he either comes with a view to saving for travel and pays us rent or if he wants to live in the area we live in , he can live with us rent free for say 3 months to build some income and find his feet then look for his own place .
He has told us that a lot of his pals are returning home and he feels isolated by our conditions or something and now implies that he will stay in his uni town . We said we thought that the best option initially as his pals there and more employment .
He seems hurt that we are not rushing to ask him return home but are encouraging his independence . ( have offered pay some of his rent there to enable him to save for travel
If that’s what he chooses)
.
In all truth we would like him to be independent but it seems the expectation is that he is supported to live at home whilst saving to travel .
D p and I both left home after uni and I guess we expected the same ( or live with parents for a short while .. and whilst we know it’s more difficult we gave offered to pay some of his rent .
Seems expectation clash
His to return home
Ours him
Not to ..
I don’t wan to distress ds so am
Asking A i b u?

OP posts:
Jonette · 14/06/2019 11:19

If it's any help, my draft plan (no detail) would be something like this:

Sort accommodation - look at figures of home/uni town
Get high paid job/two jobs.
Research travel costs
Tot up total amount needed initially.
Save
Limit expenditure for socialising
Plan route
Find someone to travel with?
Apply for visas
Get shots for bugs etc.
Sort passport/tickets
Don't miss flight Grin

Obviously there's a bit of weighing up costs/expenditure/earnings/savings in there - which is probably the first part of plan.
If he could do that much today, that's the start of his grand plan!

Jonette · 14/06/2019 11:21

Contraception - I'm not suggesting the OP goes with him FFS - it's just a useful tool to help you focus.

Jonette · 14/06/2019 11:22

Please don't patronise me with your fake sympathy Hollow. I expect you experience your username quite frequently.

Serenity45 · 14/06/2019 11:26

YANBU OP and I feel that some posters have judged you quite harshly. I can't be bothered to call individuals out (and I don't think it would be helpful in any case) but some of the language used on this thread is really judgemental and unpleasant.

Have to be honest and say I don't have kids yet (about to adopt). My own experience post uni was that I was home for a few months (paying nominal rent as on v low wage) then rented with a friend. My gap year was spent saving for uni as my mum couldn't afford to help me out and my dad wouldn't help (they had divorced). I'm the oldest of 6 so TBH not much room for me back home anyway!

I can only speak for myself, but 'having' to support myself, pay bills, budget, make choices about what I could and couldn't afford etc never felt like a hardship at all - it is just life!

I don't know your family, but you sound like a lovely mum who is trying to encourage an ADULT to be independent. You're not doing anything terrible by suggesting he makes a plan and sticks to it and that, actually, you and your husband would like to have some time in your home without another adult. Never mind the financial implications of this. Other people's lives often seem better, but more money, or parents wanting you back home until you're ready to leave isn't always the best thing for young adults. Completely accept that it's the right choice for some people though.

Good luck OP whatever you decide but stick to what's best for YOU as well

ravenmum · 14/06/2019 11:41

I don't think it sounds a good idea to sign that particular contract, whatever he decides to do instead. He'd be signing up to something he is totally unsure about.

You mentioned costs. I travelled for 6 months a few years ago (Eastern Europe, Asia and NZ) and spent roughly £10k all in.
It does depend on what definition of "travelling" is meant. My 19-year-old son is coming back tomorrow :) from 10 months in NZ. We paid for his flight and advice from a company that helps you find jobs. He's worked on a kiwi farm, washing dishes etc. and financed his own accommodation, and still saved up enough to go skydiving, swim with sharks and travel the south island for a month. Th work means you don't get to see as much, but it is really good experience too, even the dishwashing! He got that job all by himself and saw what hard work it is.

TatianaLarina · 14/06/2019 11:56

As per your most recent update - the other option, instead of uni town or with you, is to find a job or voluntary work abroad, as others have suggested.

There have been many helpful suggestions. Another would be, for example, to apply to work on a yacht either as a deckhand or a steward. That way you get to travel and earn at the same time.

Another suggestion to train as a personal trainer is a good one - a friend of mine did that while he was at uni and it was a really useful source of income.

His comments about wanting to get on a plane or be back in 6th form indicate he wants somehow to avoid adult life and choices.

ginorwine · 14/06/2019 12:00

ravenmum That sounds exactly what he would want . Work and play . I had no idea such agencies existed .. please can you give the details ?

OP posts:
AwfulMum123 · 14/06/2019 12:08

@ravenmum - mine was very much a travelling holiday. I didn't work in that time (I’d been working for 5 years in a tough role and needed a break!) Smile

tuxedocatsintophats · 14/06/2019 12:52

Everyone seems to be missing the fact that the OP lives in a rural area where there are few employment opportunities (and you really do need to drive) and she cannot afford to keep her adult son for free (which is a crime on MN) in order to stick the boot in and slag her off.

OP, in answer to your question to me about how my parents put it to me that I needed to grow up gently so they wouldn't hurt my feelings, well, they didn't. They were lovely, wonderful parents, but they didn't have a lot of money and we knew that. They just said, 'We love having you but you do need to contribute to bills/food/rent.'

I completely disagree that parents who are unable to bankroll their adult children for years and years and mollycoddle them are better parents or that the OP is a shitty parent.

He does sound quite rude and feels hard done by that he isn't bankrolled like his pals. That's life!

OP, I'd be a bit concerned if you've signed the papers to be guarantors, you might be responsible for the rent even if he doesn't move in and well, you definitely will be if he doesn't get a job.

ravenmum · 14/06/2019 13:04

The company we used was German, but the NZ tourism website has some links to providers if you scroll down this page:

www.newzealand.com/us/feature/working-in-new-zealand-during-your-holiday/

Otherwise I'm pretty sure a 21-year-old will be able to Google "work and travel New Zealand" and find some others :)

Oh, though your son might have to prove that he has a bank account with a certain amount of money in it, to get a visa. (Don't know if that's just because mine was entering from Germany.)
If so you would have to be able to a) put some money in an account and b) be sure he won't spend it!

There are similar starter companies for other countries, too.

ravenmum · 14/06/2019 13:09

@AwfulMum123 - my name is a literal translation of the German word for your user name :) - 6 months of just traveling sounds great! Really good idea if you have saved up and are able to get back to work again afterwards.

minisoksmakehardwork · 14/06/2019 15:43

@ginorwine - I do understand the rural living. We moved from very rural (not even a bus service) to slightly less rural (bus service currently under threat), I did make an assumption that your son was old enough to learn to ride and run a moped or similar (there are schemes where we are due to rural living and getting teens to college let alone work) and/or that there might be a bus service. I'm not going to suggest cycling as I do that during good weather and it really isn't something which is sustainable for a whole year of working, come what may with the weather.

crimsonlake · 14/06/2019 15:46

Personally speaking as a mum of 2 just leaving uni I think you sound overly involved in his future and plans. If you have been going on about this to him to the extent you seem to have I am not surprised he is feeling low and confused.
They are adults and are entitled to make their own decisions going forward with their lives. I have certainly not been badgering mine about what they propose to do as they move forward. One I know is applying for jobs, the other appears to want to travel. I am not sure I agree with that but it is his decision. I may have mentioned that it may not be the wisest since he is 23 years old but at the end of the day he will rightly do what he wants as it is his life.
How much involvement did your parent's have in your future choices post university?

Oliversmumsarmy · 14/06/2019 16:42

I don't think it is a question of either living with mates or living at home. I think this is why he is getting a bit depressed and wants to go travelling because although he might want to come home deep down he must realise that it would be impractical long term.

That is why I suggested Cabin Crew especially long haul because you get to travel the world and someone pays you.

Alternatively what about moving his focus to a completely different city and getting a house share aand job there.

Whatever he does I would suggest he goes into it with the

Oliversmumsarmy · 14/06/2019 16:50

Sorry posted too soon

What ever he does I would stress it isn't something that needs to be thought of as a job that is going to last more than a year, it is a starting place.

If he enjoys it or if he doesn't he can make a decision from a position of strength.

Having a job, any job proves to the outside world that he can get up in the morning and get himself to work on time.

It's a bit like being a FTB.

The place you buy isn't necessarily your dream for ever home but a stop gap to prove to a mortgage company you can pay a mortgage and bills on time

Linning · 14/06/2019 18:21

OP, YANBU to charge him rent if he decides to come home so you don't lose out financially but I think he should have the choice and your full support whatever he choses and right now, it does seem like you would much rather he doesn't come home.

I am in a similar situation to him, though slightly different because I did move out at 16 to travel and never moved back, partly because my family has made it clear they would rather I didn't come back. Frankly it is painful to know that your parents would much rather you were away, so yes I do make it work financially (because I have to, at least you are willing to help rent-wise, it hasn't been my case) but it is very stressful when some months are hard to know that I do not have the ability to potentially move back home to take a breather for a month or two (I would never want to move back long-term) to not have to pay for rent and actually think about what to do next.

I have been working non-stop since I am 16 which should make you happy, but I have had to deal with a LOT of crappy employers and abuse because I had no way out because I knew if I asked to go home, I would have a bunch of excuses about how it's best for me to stay where I am at and find another job (I guess one's mental health and sanity means very little to some).

YANBU to want your child to be independent and pay his way, but do not make him feel like you would much rather he never came home. I am also criticized for wanting to travel and not save for a deposit (though I am doing both) but traveling actually brings quite a lot of qualities and CAN bring clarity to people who are lost and don't know what to do.

I have learn to speak several languages fluently, I have lived and work in 7 countries and visited a bunch more than that, those language skills do look good on a resume, being confronted to actual poverty and lack of resources is also life changing and make people appreciate what they once failed to appreciate. It can really change someone positively and be a massive bonus on a resume. It's not a waste of time and if you are doing it right it's also not a "jolly" and can really give direction to someone who has none.

Finding work abroad, especially in Australia is not that hard if one isn't picky. I did go to Australia with 250AUD in my pocket so it is doable.

Your DS seems like he needs time to gain direction and confidence. He sounds a lot like my DB2 (18) who will work hard when in a job and never refuse to pay his way but have no direction and very little confidence in his ability to do things (right) and scared of being adventurous in general (he also chose not to take driving lessons because he is fearful of causing an accident, and is finishing baking school now but it's clear he only did it because he was told he should do it and he feels safer going with the flow and being told what to do instead of going for what he wants.)

I have booked him a flight to come visit me in a few weeks in the US because I think being abroad might give him some direction or at least motivate him to try and find his path or at least better his English skills.

There is nothing to be lost from traveling, and having a supportive family (which I know you are) comes a long-way.

I am conscious I will be working until I am at least mid 70's, I just wish I had had a little time where I could have been allowed not to have to worry about money.

Interestingly people who often wants 18yo to get on with life and start paying their way are people like my grandma (in her early 60's) who've spent a good decade being stay-at-home mums and then working part time and still managed to retire by the time they were 60 (I love her but yeah). I could be working full-time my entire life and still not retire until I am 70+ anyway , at 70+ traveling probably won't be the same as 20+ me traveling. Let him be young and enjoy it while he can, I say.

Fraxion · 14/06/2019 18:34

Fraxion

That’s really helpful about the costs . Thankyou . Can you advise how much savings were needed?

@ginorwine, just came back to the thread. I'll sent you a PM to a site that you and your son could look at, it has amazing information and helpful tips for travelling, as well as rough estimate costs.

ssd · 14/06/2019 21:32

I think hollowvictory is talking a lot of sense. He needs space to make his own decisions, even if they are the wrong ones at first.
His mum dissecting every aspect of what he should do now is so wrong.
Encourage, chat, try and stay positive. But for christ sake let the boy grow up.

Jog22 · 14/06/2019 22:53

You're not being harsh. Sensible and cautious maybe. Another one here with experience of a 25yr old ending up in his room all the time paying nothing. You're not always doing your kids a favour by enabling their dependence.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/06/2019 23:36

This trend for delaying responsibilities, growing up and becoming independent is not going to do anyone any good long term

Totally agree with this

His CV will show he deferred but didn't travel then delayed looking for work again to live with parents and play about. That is not a good look in a competitive market. He will come across as lazy and entitled

This too - and what's he planning to say when an interviewer asks about it? I've been that employer, faced with a lot of expectation but little application and it doesn't look good (though lack of selection is of course instantly deemed "not faaaiiirrr")

It's your choice, ginorwine, but you've done a lot of enabling so far and it doesn't seem to have resulted in anything positive. Time for a different approach, maybe, so that DS can finally begin to build an independent life?

SukiPutTheEarlGreyOn · 15/06/2019 00:24

Organisations like Bunac and camp America value applicants who have sports experience and who can pass their knowledge on to kids. My dd did it last year and they can also offer work in places outside the USA (such as Australia, Canada). Although there’s an initial outlay (approx £600 when return flights, visas and other admin are totted up) they also get paid while working on the camps as well as all food/accomodation, etc. It’s a useful first step for someone who isn’t confident with travelling as you arrive at the camp with other people and make friends who you can travel onwards with after the three month stint finishes.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think travel is ever wasted. It builds confidence, self-reliance and resilience and you learn about other cultures. It also sounds like it might be beneficial for your ds in lifting his low mood and seeing things from another perspective. He sounds a bit lost and demoralised, post uni. As others have already suggested, he needs to work out a clear plan in order to identify his travelling goals. The scope of his travels will determine how much he needs to save. He can also research where he can get work along the way to cut costs. Saving up for it himself is an important step in achieving his objective so the fact that you can’t magically fund it really is no bad thing.

user1487194234 · 15/06/2019 00:32

To my mind my home is my DCs home for as long as they want Full stop
The rest of it is up to them Once they finish Uni /(school?) they r adults

user27495824 · 15/06/2019 01:01

Ok after reading your further updates I have a different opinion than from the Op. My impression is from what you have said..
Poor planning
Impulsive
Lacks motivation
Indecisive
Fickle
Tendancy for low moods

I'm sure every teenager in the world is like this at times, but as someone with ADHD and 2x ADHD children I wonder if he has been investigated for ADHD ever?

Oliversmumsarmy · 15/06/2019 01:12

I think ginorwine when you inferred you would rather your Ds didn’t return home I think it could have been phrased a little differently.

More along the lines of we would love for you to come home, miss having you around but is it wise to stay long term given how isolated we are.

I still think that Ds wouldn’t have come home. He just wanted reassurance that there was a safety net.

As someone who has never had that safety net that other people take for granted I know I would have been braver in my life and would have made different choices had there been a roof over my head if it all went to pot.

StripeBlu32838 · 15/06/2019 07:51

If you live rurally & he doesn't drive
The most sensible thing would be for your DS to live & work in a town
Ideally work more than one job to save to travel

You can get cheap flights to lots of European cities approx 1year in advance. Like easyJet or Ryanair I've paid less than £50 return to Amsterdam, Denmark, Iceland etc It's cheaper to fly NOT in school holidays, NOT near bank holidays. Book accommodation separately. You can also get over night ferry to Europe too.
You can get bargain coach travel, but it takes longer.

Asia is expensive to fly £400+, but food & accommodation is cheaper
New Zealand is expensive

I know a couple of people who work in Ski resorts & in summer the same resort offers families mountain & lake activities

If he wants something to boost his moral & a reason to travel, suggest he learns to scuba dive at his local pool. Pass his open water certificates. He can dive with a group in UK or travel to warmer places. In UK a PADI course is approx £350. Also a good sport to make new friends