Another AIBU to move to London thread..

[aIways]

I read the last similar thread with interest, but my situation differs in several ways, so I'd be so grateful for advice. I always write posts that are much too long so I'll try and keep it brief, but happy to explain if needed..

I'm in my mid 20s, single mum with a 4yo. My DDs dad was abusive and doesn't see her. I graduated last year, and currently work in a startup which has given me so much experience but there is absolutely no chance of career progression or a pay rise, ever. My salary is low, but I like and respect my boss and am really grateful for him giving me a shot, especially in the unusual circumstances I was hired.

I live in a city which is almost as expensive as London, but has none of the career opportunities. It's a 2 hour commute each way.

I first properly looked for another job last weekend due to my being pissed off at not getting paid on time yet again (though I always keep an eye out for things in my area), just to see what was out there elsewhere, and found a grad job which required no experience, but pretty much all of the tasks listed are things I already do in my current job. The office seems young and fun (though I’m very aware that a single parent in a new city has little opportunity for non-child related fun and I can absolutely live with that). I applied Sunday night and Monday morning the recruiter got in touch with me, seemingly really keen.

It mostly appeals for the decent salary, the development budget for each staff member, and the scope for career progression. Also the work seems interesting and I'd be very comfortable and confident that I could exceed doing it. I’ve searched hard, and I can’t find that anywhere near where I live.

I have always loved London and my favourite days are going with DD to new, interesting places. The idea of taking her to the science museum, or the history museum or Tate modern etc for free whenever I like actually gives me butterflies

I couldn’t commute, it’d take too long and cost too much that I would be more skint than I am now. I’ve had to move my dad into my poky 2 bed to afford to live. It’s squished and I love him but he’s really messy/ unhygienic and there’s not enough room for us all. He’s cool with us moving, he'd miss DD desperately but has a friend to move in with, and just wants me to be happy and then ok for money so is hoping I get the job.

So.. I’m sure this will be controversial, but my starting salary is 30k, so about 2k take home, and if I moved I'd get an estimated additional 1k universal credit. I know that’s really generous, but I’m mainly moving for the career progression and am planning to work my arse off to make sure I contribute to society’s ‘pot’ in the long run. I’ve been at the mercy of in-work benefits and their random reductions, overpayments and suspensions for years and it’s made me literally suicidal; I dream of being without them (though am obviously appreciative to life in a country where they’re awarded). Annual promotion is typical within the company, and each staff member has a generous development/ training budget which they can spend as they wish.

So that’s 3k a month. My office will be near Shoreditch. I’m scared about finding DD a school, but apparently 2015 was a really low birth year and though the borough I’m looking at doesn’t publish primary intake data, neighbouring boroughs say they have over half of schools undersubscribed.

I’ve found some nice enough flats for £1500. Though I don't know the areas, so I'm going to commute for a month and scope out which ones are too stabby to consider.. I’m estimating my bills to be £500-600. So that leaves me £900 for food, petrol, treats, savings etc. So so much more that I have now. Does this all sound about right to any Londoners? I'm pretty streetwise, have grown up in a not nice area and am not expecting Notting Hill, but I don't want to live anywhere we are at serious danger of getting hurt obviously.

Atm, even with my dad chipping in for bills, my income is barely more than essential outgoings. With my DD sharing a room with me, and a fairly long commute with absolutely no scope for career progression.

The lady in the other thread was overwhelmingly told that she was crazy to move for 55k, a little more than my gross salary (I’m told I can expect bonuses etc but obviously my universal credit will reduce due to these). But I’m desperate to be free from benefits, and to be successful and build a great life for my DD. There was 4 of them, they already had a nice house and life up north. There's just 2 of us, and we're barely surviving.

I haven’t got it yet! But it’s all progressing very quickly and they seem very keen. That wasn’t short at all! But am I mental?

Having been on the other thread OP, your situation strikes me as quite different. The OP there basically already had a very comfortable setup, as 50k in the north east buys a nice lifestyle. She was going to take a significant drop in terms of spare money, support network, choices about how much to work and quality of housing.

Whereas, without wanting to sound rude, you have much less to lose. Not much money, an already expensive city and a living situation that you're not in love with. With the commute and the expensive housing you're basically already getting the downsides of London anyway, so from where I'm sitting it makes sense to try and get the benefits too! I think I would give it a whirl.

Short term I don't think it's a big deal for a five year to share with their mum. They will probably love it. My little one spends half his life migrating himself into my room anyway.

Lots of kids at school will be in a similar position anyway. Family of 4 in a two bed flat is not unusual in London due to housing costs.

Good job there are lots of parks

Whatever you decide, suggest leaving your current employer - low pay and poor prospects.

I think decisions that mean you don t over stretch yourself whilst building up a financial cushion are a good idea.

Mmm tbh I would probably investigate one bed flat options if I were OP. Just to give that extra wiggle room financially.

And you could make a one bed work. The child could have the bedroom and always could get a really good sofabed for herself. Crystal Palace is a good idea (can't remember name of poster) because it is on the Overground but schools in Hackney are better. The TFL journey finder or Citymapper will be your friend - places with a tube station are always more expensive but the Overground has really improved oin the last few years.

Ich, people aren't very keen on this plan are they? I see no reason why you shouldn't give it a go. You've clearly thought it through. As long as you've given some thought to how you'll get out and where you'll go if it all goes horribly wrong, then I don't see why not.

Also, register to rent from the council. Far cheaper and lots of the HA places are really lovely, especially in East London.

fancynancyclancy

so glad you clarified that £10 per hr, was about to ask you who your amazing cheap childminder was?!

I live in Hoxton, near Shoreditch, in a council flat and you could rent a 1 bed on the estates around here for £1500 (I pay £494 pcm for a 2 bed but only because I was 'lucky enough' to get beaten up by my ex which gave me priority for a council tenancy). E.g. not my estate but similar. The rooms in these flats are a good size as they meet Parker Morris standards, and there are communal gardens. You could probably split the reception room into 2 bedroom areas (not permanently as it's rented, but maybe using a curtain or book cases) and then use the bedroom as a smaller living space.The primary schools are good (some Outstanding within catchment). Not all of them offer breakfast/after school clubs so check the council website. Council tax is pretty low on these estates - mine is band B which is £850 a year with a 25% discount. A one bed would probably be band B as well. It's quite a working class area and not as naice as some of the areas mentioned in zone 3/4 but being able to be close to work and school saves money in commuting costs and also just general stress.The estates are becoming more mixed as well, as a lot of young professionals rent the privately owned flats as well.

I've lived in the area for 5 years and I love it - so easy to get anywhere in central London (we do go on riverside walks and to the museums almost every week), transport connections are excellent, and there are good amenities of everything you need (GPs, dentists, food shops, library, parks, leisure centre). And I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like the hipster vibe in Shoreditch. Lots of street food, street art and interesting things happening every day.

No schools don't start at 815 usually. I don't know of a single one that does. The earliest start you might find is 845.

Only £300 a month for childcare is not enough to budget realistically. At some schools the wraparound care is £25 a day, plus you would need to budget for Playscheme, which can be £50 a day or more. Of course, both of these can be cheaper, but it very much depends where in London. There is a huge variation between the 'good' and 'bad' areas.

I would also be sceptical about being entitled to 1k a month in universal credit on an income of 30k.

I just checked UC as I was interested in whether it would be that much and yeah looks like it is. I’m sure the OP is doing the proper research!

London is a great place to bring up little kids. Inner London boroughs tend to have younger demographics and so have retained lots of childrens services. There's SO MUCH to do here for free on the weekends.

I'm not sure about the secondary school situation but the primary is good. I chose the 'good' local school rather than the Ofsted 'outstanding' so do try to visit some in person when you've narrowed down your areas. For school you will need wrap around care which costs me at least £20pd.

Do not underestimate the long hours culture here, especially if you're in tech. We're here without family and have a circle of friends that help each other out. Try to build up the same wherever you go. £30k salary is under the London average so try to climb the ladder!

Hope you make it here soon. If you don't like it you can easily move on with extra experience and a new outlook.

Rooting for you OP!

Thanks guys. Made it through the next stage so just the final interview now!

Oh I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but wanted to gauge your thoughts. As I said, the salary scale advertised is 28-32k. If I get a job offer, would I be a huge CF to ask if there is any possibility of assistance with relocation costs? Either as a bonus or an interest-free loan? I'm saving what I can and doing online surveys and the like as much as possible to raise extra funds, but even a grand would help a lot with moving costs, deposits before my current deposit is released etc.

I'd say over half of the grad schemes I've seen offer one of the above for all new starters (not specifically for relocation) - between 2 and 10k, so didn't think it a completely ridiculous idea, but I'm not sure?

Also, I have learnt over the past few years not to mention my child until I have the job. So I guess the vast majority of applicants without a child would just rent a room in a flatshare, and the costs wouldn't be anywhere near as high. So would I just seem like a weirdo asking for this, especially as I'm based in the South East, not Scotland or somewhere where a moving van etc would cost much more.

Maybe overthinking, but I don't really know anybody with a 'corporate' type job who I can bounce this kind of stuff off. Thanks

I know of employees who have been paid relocation expenses for moving from abroad. To include flight, and hotel for a time until long term accomodation can be found. Total was a significant amount. It was gifted, on the proviso that the employee stayed with the company for a specific time.

You can ask for relocation expenses, but whether they pay will depend on how in demand your skill set is.

I’m in London and I’ve never heard of this for graduate level-type jobs. But there’s no harm in asking. The interest-free loan could be a possibility especially. Not sure about the bonus.

Asking for a relocation expense is great idea. Its actually quite a cheap benefit for them because they won't have to pay other associated costs and it's a one of. So if they offered you £1k extra salary a year they'd have to pay pension and national insurance on top of that but a relocation cost won't and they can claim back the VAT.

If they offer you the job ask them about the full package, including healthcare, pension and bonus. Then you need to say 'thank you, I'm delighted about the job but disappointed with the package. I'd like a salary of £34k, matched pension contributions of 8% and a 5k relocation package.' you can adjust the numbers but aim high as you will get more and it might take a day or two to get signed off. It will feel sooo uncomfortable but this is what blokes do and they earn more.
Hope this helps.

I would be wary of doing what Positivity has said. I know someone, a man, who did this , encouraged by his girlfriend who was in HR (not the same firm) and insisted this was how things were done. Company withdrew the job offer and offered it to the next candidate instead.

I've done it for a few jobs. I think as long as you are realistic in your requests and friendly but firm it works.
Eg I need a 5k relocation cost to cover the deposit on a new flat otherwise I'll struggle to move.

Tbf I have been looking at grad schemes at the big 4, automotive grad jobs e.g Rolls Royce etc. (as I have experience in this industry - none of them recruit at this time of year though, and thinking about it I highly doubt they'll be family friendly at all) so this is where I'm getting this info on re bonuses and interest free loans. Worth an ask though after offer if you don't all think it's absurdly CF.

They called this evening, got the final interview Tuesday! Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Hurray Always - well done on getting the interview. Will remember to keep fingers crossed on Tuesday. My experience is that relocation expenses are normally for senior posts (which is unfair as they need it less) but worth trying for an interest free loan. Lots of London employers offer season ticket loans and this would be similar in terms of the amount needed.

They say men are better at asking for pay rises and promotions than women. Perhaps we should all be braver about this sort of thing?

It sounds doable on the numbers but...
A) even at final interview stage, or a 30k job with the perks you describe, you will be competing against bright young grads from Russell group unis. The recruiters will have been equally positive with them too.
B) be extremely wary of the potential for annual 5k payrises/promotions. No company tells you there's no prospect of promotion, they all overegg this massively. Same is true of development budgets- my well known and generally good corporate employer has something similar but colleagues and I never seem to accepted when applying to actually use it except small amounts.
C) do check that all the flats you are looking at will accept people on benefits. They may not be open about refusing people on UC but will ask for proof of your income & will run credit checks etc, and can easily turn away anyone for whom the rent is more than 50% income for example. Flats accepting people on benefits are nearly always less nice but unfairly prices at a premium.

The company I work for in London takes on a lot of top graduates but there would be no relocation packages or bonuses or negotiation over salary- pays a lot less than the OP’s hopefully new job as well. What did you do your degree in? Are you in tech? Perhaps that makes a difference.