Another AIBU to move to London thread..

[aIways]

I read the last similar thread with interest, but my situation differs in several ways, so I'd be so grateful for advice. I always write posts that are much too long so I'll try and keep it brief, but happy to explain if needed..

I'm in my mid 20s, single mum with a 4yo. My DDs dad was abusive and doesn't see her. I graduated last year, and currently work in a startup which has given me so much experience but there is absolutely no chance of career progression or a pay rise, ever. My salary is low, but I like and respect my boss and am really grateful for him giving me a shot, especially in the unusual circumstances I was hired.

I live in a city which is almost as expensive as London, but has none of the career opportunities. It's a 2 hour commute each way.

I first properly looked for another job last weekend due to my being pissed off at not getting paid on time yet again (though I always keep an eye out for things in my area), just to see what was out there elsewhere, and found a grad job which required no experience, but pretty much all of the tasks listed are things I already do in my current job. The office seems young and fun (though I’m very aware that a single parent in a new city has little opportunity for non-child related fun and I can absolutely live with that). I applied Sunday night and Monday morning the recruiter got in touch with me, seemingly really keen.

It mostly appeals for the decent salary, the development budget for each staff member, and the scope for career progression. Also the work seems interesting and I'd be very comfortable and confident that I could exceed doing it. I’ve searched hard, and I can’t find that anywhere near where I live.

I have always loved London and my favourite days are going with DD to new, interesting places. The idea of taking her to the science museum, or the history museum or Tate modern etc for free whenever I like actually gives me butterflies

I couldn’t commute, it’d take too long and cost too much that I would be more skint than I am now. I’ve had to move my dad into my poky 2 bed to afford to live. It’s squished and I love him but he’s really messy/ unhygienic and there’s not enough room for us all. He’s cool with us moving, he'd miss DD desperately but has a friend to move in with, and just wants me to be happy and then ok for money so is hoping I get the job.

So.. I’m sure this will be controversial, but my starting salary is 30k, so about 2k take home, and if I moved I'd get an estimated additional 1k universal credit. I know that’s really generous, but I’m mainly moving for the career progression and am planning to work my arse off to make sure I contribute to society’s ‘pot’ in the long run. I’ve been at the mercy of in-work benefits and their random reductions, overpayments and suspensions for years and it’s made me literally suicidal; I dream of being without them (though am obviously appreciative to life in a country where they’re awarded). Annual promotion is typical within the company, and each staff member has a generous development/ training budget which they can spend as they wish.

So that’s 3k a month. My office will be near Shoreditch. I’m scared about finding DD a school, but apparently 2015 was a really low birth year and though the borough I’m looking at doesn’t publish primary intake data, neighbouring boroughs say they have over half of schools undersubscribed.

I’ve found some nice enough flats for £1500. Though I don't know the areas, so I'm going to commute for a month and scope out which ones are too stabby to consider.. I’m estimating my bills to be £500-600. So that leaves me £900 for food, petrol, treats, savings etc. So so much more that I have now. Does this all sound about right to any Londoners? I'm pretty streetwise, have grown up in a not nice area and am not expecting Notting Hill, but I don't want to live anywhere we are at serious danger of getting hurt obviously.

Atm, even with my dad chipping in for bills, my income is barely more than essential outgoings. With my DD sharing a room with me, and a fairly long commute with absolutely no scope for career progression.

The lady in the other thread was overwhelmingly told that she was crazy to move for 55k, a little more than my gross salary (I’m told I can expect bonuses etc but obviously my universal credit will reduce due to these). But I’m desperate to be free from benefits, and to be successful and build a great life for my DD. There was 4 of them, they already had a nice house and life up north. There's just 2 of us, and we're barely surviving.

I haven’t got it yet! But it’s all progressing very quickly and they seem very keen. That wasn’t short at all! But am I mental?

bug not big

I’m probably being thick & like I said no knowledge of the benefit system but if a pay rise & UC will give you the equivalent of 49k why don’t you get that now? i.e with just a higher percentage of benefits vs income.

I work with a guy who has just moved up here to the north west, he earned 35k in London and said that covered the essentials.

He's earning 20k up here and better off!! And we live in one of the most desirable cites up t north.

What will London offer that other cities/towns can't?

I seen friends go off to London with wide eyes to make there fortune only to live the high life for ten years and then come back to try and build a proper life, like owning a home, a car and start a family.

To me London works for the very well paid, and people who dip in to earn a good wage, live like a pauper, save the cash and get out.

I say go for it OP.. Im a single parent of one DS in West London. Im on a similar take home salary to you, rent a nice 2 bed for £1500 per month, I cycle to work which saves money and generally manage fine on that amount. Also make use of tax free childcare as that really helps to pay for after school care. There is so much excellent free/cheap stuff to do in London. The parks in particular... I think I read that London has more green space than any other European city.. so definitely make use of those if you decide to make the move..

According to another thread relative poverty is defined as (in 2015/6 for a family of 2 adults and 2 children) as 'only' having £1738 per month after housing costs. So if you take into account a minimum rent/mortgage of 1500 that requires around 55k so I do see where the posters who say you need 100k are coming from.

But there's only two of us? And she's 4 so would rather go out collecting flowers to press than shopping for Nikes So surely £1500 after housing isn't too bad. Sounds quite a lot to me, though I'm sure childcare will swallow a lot of it up. But at least I know I have a chance of moving up the career ladder. I can budget and meal plan and count the pennies happily for a few more years as long as I know that if I work hard enough, I'll one day have a little more money and security for the pair of us.

That post was in reply to the posters always say you need 100k to survive in London point.

Don't underestimate the cost of travel. Nearly all schools in London have wrap around care. Go for it what have you got to loose really? Worst that could happen would that you'd need to move back, it's got to be worth a try.
For Shoreditch I'd be looking around Woodford, South Woodford, Redbridge, walthamstow, woodstreet, wansted. All have good train links, good primary schools, avalibility for lettings.

Of course you will progress but as I said earlier with your UC your take home pay is akin to 49k approx salary. I assume as your salary increases benefits decrease so therefore your disposable income isn’t likely to change significantly until you get into the 60k salary plus mark. I think 1500 is tight, unfortunately as it’s just you, you need a bigger safety net however nothing is impossible.

I’m probably being thick & like I said no knowledge of the benefit system but if a pay rise & UC will give you the equivalent of 49k why don’t you get that now? i.e with just a higher percentage of benefits vs income.

Because work pays, as the tories say? I assume they can't afford to pay everyone that sort of money. Plus my rent is less. My benefits are quite a few hundred pounds more, but my salary is much, much less. Obviously people who work more hours and/ or in 'better' jobs should get more money, otherwise what would be the point in trying?

Don’t underestimate flexibility & the opportunity to wfh with small children. I’m part time but it’s still a lifesaver as there is always a big going around or a school play etc.

Yeah but I'm struggling to pay my bills. I do really appreciate the flexibility but I can't be in the red every month with absolutely no possibility of a pay rise. Being able to wfh isn't worth that.

I say go for it OP.. Im a single parent of one DS in West London. Im on a similar take home salary to you, rent a nice 2 bed for £1500 per month, I cycle to work which saves money and generally manage fine on that amount. Also make use of tax free childcare as that really helps to pay for after school care. There is so much excellent free/cheap stuff to do in London. The parks in particular... I think I read that London has more green space than any other European city.. so definitely make use of those if you decide to make the move..

This makes me happy, thank you

Don't underestimate the cost of travel. Nearly all schools in London have wrap around care. Go for it what have you got to loose really? Worst that could happen would that you'd need to move back, it's got to be worth a try.
For Shoreditch I'd be looking around Woodford, South Woodford, Redbridge, walthamstow, woodstreet, wansted. All have good train links, good primary schools, avalibility for lettings.

That is so useful, thank you!

Of course you will progress but as I said earlier with your UC your take home pay is akin to 49k approx salary. I assume as your salary increases benefits decrease so therefore your disposable income isn’t likely to change significantly until you get into the 60k salary plus mark. I think 1500 is tight, unfortunately as it’s just you, you need a bigger safety net however nothing is impossible.

No, I know. I was shocked when I typed into the entitledto calculator how my income would change if I was on 50k and there wasn't a massive amount of difference. But like I said, I'm desperate to be off benefits. And even with the way UC is worked out, a 5k pay rise next year would mean about £1500 net, which is a little UK holiday, Christmas and £500 in savings. Then the year after, another £1500 on top could mean a little holiday abroad, a grand in savings etc. When you only have a few quid spare at the end of the month, a pay rise which in real terms only equals £130 a month is actually pretty significant. And maybe one day I'll be one of those mythical MN high earners I read so much about

I’m confused- lots of talk here about factoring in childcare costs but you say nothing about how you are covering those costs now, on a lower salary. With your DD about to start school, won’t your childcare costs be going down? Have you already got her into a school local to where you currently live? Any decision about a London school would be compared to that, would it not?

You sound really enthusiastic but bear in mind that it is a recruiter’s job to be very positive about the chances of you getting a job. You may get to the interview and decide that you really dislike the people you’d be working with, or they may decide you are not the right fit for the team.

FWIW you can definitely afford to live within sensible commuting distance of Shoreditch on that salary. Lots and lots of much lower paid people do, but you may be looking at a train to Essex or Hertfordshire rather than a tube to zone 3.

It’s certainly worth going to the interview.

If your DD starts school in September, you will need to base your search around schools with available places so start by contacting some LEAs. I would also recommend Wanstead/South Woodford/Woodford (London Borough of Redbridge for LEA). Nice safe areas with good primary schools and easily commutable on the central line. Commuting on the underground is generally quite a bit cheaper than via overground.

Well good luck

I’m confused- lots of talk here about factoring in childcare costs but you say nothing about how you are covering those costs now, on a lower salary. With your DD about to start school, won’t your childcare costs be going down? Have you already got her into a school local to where you currently live? Any decision about a London school would be compared to that, would it not?

Not according to the costs on these threads! I work pt, there's no money available for me to increase my hours. With the 30hrs free, I pay about £280 per month childcare.

Salary - £900
Tax credits - £600
Housing benefit - £500
Child benefit - £80

So that's £2080. I pay out:-

Rent - £1150
Childcare - £280
Council tax - £120
Utilities - £150
Phone bill - £50
Car insurance (would sell my car if I moved to London - need to get to work atm) - £90
Various repayments - £60

So that's £1900 as it is without thinking about petrol, food and probably a couple of other bills I've forgotten off the top of my head. £180 for all that plus clothes, Christmas, birthdays, emergencies, car issues etc etc. Very difficult to make it all add up.

Whereas I've just reran the sums with the postcode of the flat above (which has a higher housing allowance it seems) and £500 monthly childcare costs which sounds more reasonable given all of your feedback. I'd apparently get:-

Salary - 2k
UC - £1430

So £3430.

Rent - £1500
Childcare - £500
Bills - £350

So that's over a grand spare for food, travel, savings etc instead of £180. Seems pretty doable (bloody life changing) to me.

Thank you so much everybody, I'll look into all of these areas. And I'll update if I get it and if I go, if anyone is interested

OP, can you go and see a financial adviser?

I’m in a completely different, but equally financially complicated situation - I’m disabled, so benefits were involved. I wanted to move back to London and went to see a financial adviser to figure it all out, and it was really helpful. We went through everything in vast detail.

I did move, and still see her now. She is helping me save for the longer term

I always thought financial advisers were for people with bigger incomes than me but there are some who work with people on more average incomes, and i’d really recommend it

I didn’t pay for the initial consultation and now I pay her a small annual fee to manage the investment stuff for me, it’s really worth it and i’d strongly recommend.

OP I wouldn’t rely on those calculators, they are often wrong. You need to speak to someone in the know and get an actual figure. Sorry to put a pin in your balloon.
Also schools- at this point in time you could end up with a school a few miles from you- you would need to figure out how to get your daughter to breakfast club if it isn’t already full, likewise the same coming home, it the school isn’t near you a train station etc,

I will point out was offered a job at 32k just outside London several years ago, I turned it down they came back with another offer I rejected it and so it continued until their last offer was 62k. I still turned it down, as once I played with all the figures I was less than £100 a month better off than my 32k job in Wales. Not worth moving the dc for that, and I would have had no childcare costs. I’m just saying be careful.

OP, just came in to say you sound absolutely lovely and yes.... come to London! I’m certain from your posts you’ll make a go if it. You and your daughter will go from strength to strength. Fingers crossed for the job. I’m in SW London, do don’t know East London too well, but I’m sure you can get s lovely flat for your budget. We rent out a large 1 bed for £1,600 per month and that’s in one if the most expensive areas of west London with park views etc, so it is possible. You sound so positive - I really do wish you and your daughter all the best!

Op back to private renting from housing associations, heres one in Walthamstow for a great price.
We rented from them at first and found them great.
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-62767521.html

Dont underestimate the cost of childcare in London. It is astronomical. So is everything else. The only thing that’s cheaper is public transport.

The job and the prospects sound great though.

Are you sure you would be entitled to the benefits that you mention? I have absolutely no knowledge of the benefit system but I’m quite surprised to learn that someone earning £30k would be entitled to an additional £1k per month.

How the heck are you entitled to £1000 in UC? I just moved from London earning £47k part time salary and I was entitled to nothing...