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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher shouted at me

223 replies

Millie2018 · 13/05/2019 11:54

Dropped my DD off at nursery and walk round past the junior school building to get out. I’m pushing a buggy, which has my 1yo asleep in. A teacher opens her door and starts shouting at me. I can’t hear so walk closer to her and say pardon and she shouts at me “we are trying to do a test in here”. I’m confused and look around and say ok? Then another parent comes over and picks up her nursery aged child who had wondered over to the classroom window. The teacher obviously thought the child was mine. I’m pretty shocked. Firstly, when did it become ok to shout at parents on school grounds? Secondly, you're shouting at the wrong parent. Thirdly, it’s nursery pick up time and your window is on the pick up route (there’s no alternative). Would I be unreasonable to drop in the office on my afternoon run to mention it? Or is this just the norm now?!

OP posts:
GPatz · 13/05/2019 15:31

WombatChocolate

I swear you say the same thing on every thread Grin

Ellisandra · 13/05/2019 15:33

Good post @wombat Wink

Ellisandra · 13/05/2019 15:34

That should have been a smile not a wink!

Comefromaway · 13/05/2019 15:51

I've been in and around severalschools during SATS weeks including ones with nurseries. ALL of them have numerous Quiet Please signs up, Rooms are usually chosen as to be away from other areas of the school.

I would also expect that if pick up times clashed that contingence arrangments would be made, eg a newsletter sent out to nursery parents or children being taken by a member of nursery staff to a differnt area for pick up (would all depend on the layout of the school). It is unusual in a school layout of the ones I have known for the nursery unit/class to be near the Year 6 classes, they are usually located near to Reception/Year 1.

So essentially I think that yes, the teacher may have been stressed, but ultimately she was in the wrong and probably caused far more disturnace to the children taking the tests than the toddler was.

ShivD · 13/05/2019 15:55

So the child was at the Window so the teacher SHOUTED to get it to stop. Does the teacher shouting not cause a disturbance to the kids of are they exempt?

WombatChocolate · 13/05/2019 16:00

GPatz, ha ha! YEs I probably do! There are a lot of people who ask if they should complain about matters which are extremely trivial and not worthy of complaint, where they've taken offence very easily.

And then lots of people pile in and suggest that they definitely should complain and they would......people who see life as a battle and that everyone is out to get them and that their job in life is to defend their dignity.

There are of course issues that arise which definitely need a complaint....and I would certainly make a complaint then. The key thing is making a sensible judgement about the difference between issues that need a complaint and those which don't....those where someone's tone might not have been quite the one we would like or their choice of word not exactly what we would choose, or clumsily phrased language......and serious malpractice or unprofessional behaviour. It is also about being self-aware and knowing if you yourself are rather over sensitive and touchy and being able to take a step away from what has happened and appraise it a little bit objectively.

I don't know where all these furious people are in real life, as fortunately I rarely seem to meet them.

CaptainBrickbeard · 13/05/2019 16:01

OP, I’m a teacher. In your shoes, I would be really upset to be shouted at and it would prey on my mind. I’d also be doing a bit of fizzing with injustice. I totally understand.

I also see if the teacher was administering SATS that they may have been under a lot of pressure at that moment - if I were the teacher, I would be mortified by my own behaviour and feeling terrible about it. She might be!

The school is at fault for poor organisation/communication. I’m in secondary so we are very used to isolating exam areas and keeping silent conditions free from disruption. Primary schools may not have the same capacity, so that’s unfortunate. Mentioning it might be helpful so that the school address the problem and further tests this week aren’t disrupted by the nursery run.

So, I have sympathy for both sides and don’t feel the need to demonise anyone in this scenario. Not because all teachers are saints and deserve a free rein to do as they please or that we are the most stressed of all professions, but just that sometimes people do make a mistake and this isn’t the worst one imaginable, though I do see why the OP is upset.

Two comments have really stood out to me though. OP, you said that as your role is ‘customer facing’ you wouldn’t get away with this at work. Parents and children aren’t customers and education isn’t a product. The customer service approach to schools is a poisonous one, largely responsible for many of the problems facing the profession at the moment. Children are not components in a factory chain which we can mould to an expected and predictable result. We also don’t work at parents’ convenience in the way that a business might. I treat parents politely and professionally, but I am not providing a service to them. They don’t have a right to dictate to me or vice versa. That doesn’t mean I think this teacher had a right to shout at anyone, but there is a distinction between public services like teachers/police/doctors/nurses etc and private sector businesses built on an customer service model. It’s very problematic for all public services when the public imagines they can treat us like an unsatisfactory business that needs their custom. It isn’t the same at all.

Finally, the poster who said teachers should get a new career if we can’t handle the stress - we are. In record numbers. There is a monumental crisis in teacher recruitment and retention. If you are someone who says this kind of stuff, ease don’t complain when your child is in a class of 40+ for their GCSEs because there aren’t enough teachers left.

I lied, that wasn’t final! A particular bugbear of mine is the ‘you will be that parent’ doom-mongering so beloved by MN. I’ve beeb teaching over a decade; there is no such thing as ‘that parent’. I understand that parents might have lapses or stressful situations and might not always act totally reasonably. Or they might be a total dickhead. I still don’t refer to them as ‘that parent’ and I never, ever judge a child because of it. For people to say ‘pray your child doesn’t have that teacher if you dare to complain’ is ridiculous. I’ve never known a teacher that would take it out on a child. I’ve had the occasional parent be abominably rude or dictatorial to me and I have never treated their children any differently as a result of it. We don’t have a database of ‘those parents’. Don’t ever be scared of MNers telling you that we do!

BeanBag7 · 13/05/2019 16:05

I've had kids sitting year 11 coursework exams in my classroom and distractions have such an effect. In one sitting we had someone mowing the lawn outside; then the postman parked his van and made lots of noise opening it, rummaging around, slamming the door and then 3 minutes later doing the same in reverse; then they started mowing the lawn on the other side. I did actually go out and ask them to stop at this point and if a kid had been peeking in the window causing yet more distraction I probably would have said something to the child and/or parent.

Goldmandra · 13/05/2019 16:17

I’ve beeb teaching over a decade; there is no such thing as ‘that parent’.

Oh, believe me, there is. There really is.

I have two DDs with ASD who mask their difficulties in school and fall apart at home. I have had to be 'that parent' on numerous occasions and been treated appallingly by some teachers and TAs as a result.

This may not be a phenomenon that you recognise in your own practice but some parents are very much labelled and treated accordingly by school staff.

lisalocketlostherpocket · 13/05/2019 16:20

OP will it still bother you in a week's time? If not, let it go. SATS are massively stressful for teachers. That doesn't make it ok but cut the teacher some slack.

ilovesooty · 13/05/2019 16:27

We don't have a database of 'those' parents

My former headteacher did. They were known as "signposted parents" and we were all instructed to ensure that their children were favourably treated in order to prevent complaints.

Iggly · 13/05/2019 16:30

I don't know where all these furious people are in real life, as fortunately I rarely seem to meet them

^this

It’s easy to get all ragey when stomping on a keyboard but I bet many people wouldn’t actually complain about this in real life!!!

GPatz · 13/05/2019 16:31

WombatChocolate

Great response Smile

lazylinguist · 13/05/2019 16:40

Great posts, Wombat. Dh (teacher) has spent a lot of time over his career dealing with the fallout of clashes and drama between people who are constantly attributing malicious intent to others when there clearly isn't really any. It's the sign of an ineffective person with low self-esteem. It's usually learnt behaviour - kids who are used to seeing their parents kick off at the slightest thing tend to behave the same way.
Maintaining the moral highground, preserving your dignity and displaying understanding and self-control will gain you more respect (from sensible human beings) than retaliating by trying to prove you're not a 'pushover'.

Millie2018 · 13/05/2019 16:51

Thank you for your post, it made a lot of sense to me. I went into the infants office and very politely mentioned what had happened and that it might be a good idea to send out an email or put posters up. They thought that was a good idea. Hopefully everyone will be a bit more considerate for the rest of the week.

OP posts:
Millie2018 · 13/05/2019 16:52

To poster CaptainBrickbeard

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 13/05/2019 17:31

That was definitely the right thing to do, OP. And wise words from CaptainBrickbeard.

Lizzie48 · 13/05/2019 17:41

I can understand you being upset, OP. It can’t have been nice to be shouted at when it wasn’t your toddler who was disturbing the SATS test. But it sounds as if you handled it very well in going to the school office and mentioning it, suggesting signs about SATS and requesting consideration from parents.

I would say it should be case closed now, quite honestly.

Yabbers · 13/05/2019 18:13

Is it any wonder the kids are so stressed about SATS when adults are making such a fuss about one small child being near a window to the point a teacher has to go out and shout loudly twice at a parent too far away to hear (thus being far more disruptive.)

We have had testing every year of primary school for four years. The only time DD has shown any worry about it is when she had a teacher who kept telling the class they HAD to do well. No surprise she was one of the teachers who was generally considered to be the worst in the school.

isittheholidaysyet · 13/05/2019 18:39

I don't know where all these furious people are in real life, as fortunately I rarely seem to meet them

People like me. You wouldn't know if you met me. Unless you were my DH, my parent or a very very close friend.
I'll tell trusted people. Cry at night. Rage in my personal prayer.
Maybe 'kick off' anonymously on mumsnet...

Then deal with the problem in what outwardly seems like a mature sensible manner.

(Oh, and I've seen people labelled as 'that' parent)

clairemcnam · 13/05/2019 18:59

I have known people who kick off about petty things like this in real life. They are rarely employed - because they can't deal with anyone telling them what to do, they have normally fallen out with tons of family members, friends and neighbours, and I have found it is a total waste of time even trying to gently suggest that they might be playing some part in what is happening.

clairemcnam · 13/05/2019 19:00

Yabbers One small child next to a school window can either make a lot of noise, or cause a lot of disruption in the classroom.

Mzjackson86 · 14/05/2019 14:43

I'd of bounced in that school and give her what for! Cheeky cow

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 14/05/2019 14:57

And you would have been entirely in the wrong to do so, @Mzjackson86. You’d have disturbed the class sitting their SATS, apart from anything else, as well as possibly getting yourself into trouble at the school.

Teachers should not have to put up with abuse - either physical or verbal - from parents, and parents who have abused staff have been banned from school grounds, and had to pick up their children from the office.

The OP did the sensible thing - discussed the matter, and then had a quiet, polite word at the office about the lack of signs.

‘Bouncing in and giving them what for’ would be a sign of someone who doesn’t have an adult control over their temper, in my opinion. You don’t want to get a reputation as an abusive parent.

Catchingbentcoppers · 14/05/2019 15:05

I'd of bounced in that school and give her what for! Cheeky cow

Yes, because that's a perfectly reasonable response, rather than having a, you know, grown up conversation about such a non issue ...